Michael being Jesus

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by HisWitness, Jun 20, 2013.

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  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness
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    1st thess. 4-16

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout,with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first


    John 5-28

    Marvel not at this:For the hour is coming' in the which all that are in the graves shall hear HIS voice.

    John is dealing with the voice of the Son of God

    Thess is dealing with the voice of the archangel

    So how do you bring together these voices at the resurrection ??

    was Jesus really Michael the archangel ???
     
  2. Steadfast Fred

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    No, they were separate entities.

    Michael, in his answering satan, said, "The Lord rebuke thee". Had he been Jesus, he would have said, "I rebuke thee".

    HW, are you a JW? Because this doctrine of Michael and Jesus being the same is a Kingdom Hall doctrine and not Baptistic in the least.
     
    #2 Steadfast Fred, Jun 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  3. HisWitness

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    you didn't even address the thread---what about the 2 voices both are at the resurrection ????

    how can one be the Son of God and the other be Michael the archangel at the same event ???
     
  4. Steadfast Fred

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    Michael shouts while Jesus descends.

    Now, answer my question.
     
  5. HisWitness

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    well that has problems with this verse.....

    Zec 3-2

    And the Lord said unto Satan,The LORD rebuke thee

    I didn't finish the verse but not needed---you see plainly where the LORD is speaking and he said the LORD rebuke thee
     
  6. Amy.G

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    How is HW still here???? How bad does his doctrine have to get before the mods notice? This is the Baptist section of the board is it not??
     
  7. HisWitness

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    they hear jesus voice in John at the resurrection---not just him descending

    seems as you are trying to tip toe tru the tulips here ???


    The Son of God's voice is heard in john by the dead
    The Archangel's voice is heard in thess by the dead

    your still not answering the post ???
     
  8. HisWitness

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    im presenting plain scriptures here--why don't you tell us what they mean ???
     
  9. Steadfast Fred

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    In Heaven, Jesus identifies Himself as Jesus...


    Revelation 22:16 KJV
    [16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.


    Jesus is Jesus.
    Michael is Michael.

    Enough said.
     
  10. Steadfast Fred

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    I notice you are avoiding answering my question, HW.
     
  11. HisWitness

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    Sted fred you are purposely skiiping the scriptures provided because you don't have the answer ???
     
  12. Steadfast Fred

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    i answered your OP. the fact you reject the answer does not mean I didn't answer.

    Now, answer my question.
     
  13. Fred's Wife

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    Michael the archangel is connected with Israel throughout Scripture...

    Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

    Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

    Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

    Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

    Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

    Michael the archangel is not Jesus Christ.

    Does Michael the archangel ever call himself "the Alpha and Omega"?

    Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

    Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    The teaching of Michael the archangel being Jesus Christ is NOT a Baptist teaching...it is a false teaching and heresy. So why is this thread in the Baptist section?
     
  14. HisWitness

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    your answer is


    I am a BAPTIST that searches and receives TRUTH regardless of what denomination it falls under friend--if you let your Baptist name cause you to reject truth you are in trouble :praying::praying::praying:
     
  15. Steadfast Fred

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    I am not rejecting Truth.

    Proper exegesis reveals thatMichael and Jesus are not the same.
     
  16. HisWitness

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    I have plainly proven your theory wrong by the word of God--what ye say ???
     
  17. Steadfast Fred

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    The book of Hebrews refutes the teaching that Jesus is Michael...


    Hebrews 1:5,8,13-14 KJV
    [5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? [8] But unto the Son he saith , Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. [13] But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? [14] Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?


    None of the angels were begotten of the Father... Not even Michael.
     
  18. HisWitness

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    you have yet still to answer the question--even after being proven wrong on your theory.

    why not answer the 2 voices I presented

    both at the resurrection
    one was Son of God voice
    one was Archangel voice

    come on now stop tip toeing here and deal straight on with the issue at hand
     
  19. Fred's Wife

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    You certainly could have fooled me. What you are teaching is not a Baptist teaching. Nowhere is this false heretical teaching about Michael the archangel being Jesus Christ found in Scripture....unless you twist Scripture to make it "fit" (2 Peter 3:16).

    What you are promoting here is an Arian doctrine, which denies the deity of Christ. I suppose you don't believe in the deity of Chirst or that God is triune?
     
  20. Pastor_Bob

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    The fact (or assumption) that two voices are heard does not constitute the false doctrine that Jesus and Michael are one in the same. There are far too many passages that clearly teach us exactly who Jesus is.

    If you are going to take the passages you quote literally, then Michael shouts while the Lord Himself descends from heaven. The voice of Jesus is heard only by those that are "in the graves." Two different voices - two different sources.
     
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