Millenial Exclusionists sound off!

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Lacy Evans, Sep 29, 2004.

  1. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    I know that the popularity of a doctrine doesn't sanctify it. But I was just curious who else here besides me believes it.

    It has been called a quirky, oddball doctrine. But so far no-one has refuted it. In fact, the numbers who believe it here on the BB are growing.

    If you believe an eternally secure Christian can be chastened at the Judgment Seat Of Christ, and subsequently miss the 1000 year reign of Christ, sound off.

    Lacy
     
  2. James_Newman

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    I believe! I believe!
    Hebrews 11:6
    But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
     
  3. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    If you're not there, then where are you?
     
  4. James_Newman

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    The unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. They will be appointed their portion with the hypocrites.
     
  5. av1611jim

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    I, too, believe.
    Help thou Lord, mine unbelief.
    My greatest problem with the doctrine is past prejudices. It is NOT what I've been taught.
    That being said; it DOES explain those "problem texts" that OSAS has with the warning passages.
    Although I once believe in conditional security, that just went the way side many long years ago.
    So, Bro. Lacy; count me IN.
    In His service;
    Jim
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Some Christians go to hell for 1000 years?

    COUNT ME OUT!
     
  7. R. J.

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    The scriptures make a pretty good case for the EARTHLY millennial kingdom being promised to ISRAEL.

    Members of the body of Christ are promised a HEAVENLY kingdom. If believers have trouble separating the PROPHECIED earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ FROM the mysteries of the body of Christ that were REVEALED to the apostle Paul directly by the risen and ascended Savior, THEN they will also have trouble separating the earthly kingdom FROM the heavenly kingdom.

    A good example of the inability to separate these kingdoms is manifest in "Deafposttrib's" thread concerning these kingdoms.

    You can COUNT ME OUT as I am not planning on "horning in" on Israel's promised earthly kingdom.
     
  8. R. J.

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    Jim,

    Are you speaking of "problem texts" that were written to the Hebrews?

    If that be the case, perhaps the contradictions you perceive would be better solved by rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15).

    If you have identified "problem texts" within the doctrines for the body of Christ as manifest in Paul's epistles, Romans through Philemon, to which "texts" are you referring?
     
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    So then the
    postrib premillinnial exclusionists believe
    that the Billions of Christians
    who fail under the Antichrist tortures will
    be tortured by Jesus'es angels for 1,000
    years? I must be missing something?
     
  10. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    Believe me Brother Bob, sometimes I wish it were that easy! :D :D :D

    What would we do without one another but argue with ourselves?

    Love Lacy
     
  11. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    I'm not sure whether that was a joke or not. :eek:


    KJV Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
     
  12. Salinas

    Salinas
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    Well I might as well make this my first post.

    I am convinced after many years of being a Christian,the only way you can study the bible without taking a pen knife to it.(literally and dispensationally), or doing mental and theological gymnastics, is millenial exclusion.

    "Why does the bible say eternity is a free gift apart from works, but then, if I am unrighteous I will not inherit the Kingdom of God????"

    This doctrine rightly divides between unconditional sonship, and conditional inheritance.
    (Remember firtsborn sons had a double portion God didn't keep that in His book for filler.)

    Without this doctrine:
    Some are saved by grace and others by works.
    None can ever truly be sure of eternal salvation.
    The Judgement Seat is unnecessary filler.

    May we all be accounted worthy to inherit the Kingdom.

    -Sammy
     
  13. Craigbythesea

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    Nothing, absolutely nothing can sanctify a false doctrine from the depths of hell.

    I am also curious about this. I have heard that the disease is contagious.

    It is definitely NOT a “quirky, oddball doctrine.” Quirky, oddball doctrines come from one’s own imagination—this doctrine comes straight from hell.

    This statement is false!

    I would like to see your data and the statistical methods used for your analysis of your data.

    If you believe an eternally secure Christian can be chastened at the Judgment Seat Of Christ, and subsequently miss the 1000 year reign of Christ, get down on your knees, confess your belief in lies from hell, and pray that God will heal your mind.
     
  14. Craigbythesea

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    The Bible says that salvation is a free gift apart from works of the Law. It also says that we are saved by grace through faith. Faith in the Bible, however, is never without works. There is a huge difference between works of the Law and works of righteousness.

    James 2:14. What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
    15. If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
    16. and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
    17. Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
    18. But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
    19. You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
    20. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
    21. Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?
    22. You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;
    23. and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.
    24. You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
    25. In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
    26. For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
    (NASB, 1995)

    Hebrews 11 1. Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
    2. For by it the men of old gained approval.
    3. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.
    4. By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.
    5. By faith Enoch was taken up so that he would not see death; AND HE WAS NOT FOUND BECAUSE GOD TOOK HIM UP; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God.
    6. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
    7. By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.
    8. By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going.
    9. By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise;
    10. for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
    11. By faith even Sarah herself received ability to conceive, even beyond the proper time of life, since she considered Him faithful who had promised.
    12. Therefore there was born even of one man, and him as good as dead at that, as many descendants AS THE STARS OF HEAVEN IN NUMBER, AND INNUMERABLE AS THE SAND WHICH IS BY THE SEASHORE.
    13. All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth.
    14. For those who say such things make it clear that they are seeking a country of their own.
    15. And indeed if they had been thinking of that country from which they went out, they would have had opportunity to return.
    16. But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God; for He has prepared a city for them.
    17. By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
    18. it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED."
    19. He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
    20. By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau, even regarding things to come.
    21. By faith Jacob, as he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff.
    22. By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the exodus of the sons of Israel, and gave orders concerning his bones.
    23. By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden for three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king's edict.
    24. By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter,
    25. choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin,
    26. considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.
    27. By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured, as seeing Him who is unseen.
    28. By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of the blood, so that he who destroyed the firstborn would not touch them.
    29. By faith they passed through the Red Sea as though they were passing through dry land; and the Egyptians, when they attempted it, were drowned.
    30. By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days.
    31. By faith Rahab the harlot did not perish along with those who were disobedient, after she had welcomed the spies in peace.
    32. And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets,
    33. who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed acts of righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions,
    34. quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight.
    35. Women received back their dead by resurrection; and others were tortured, not accepting their release, so that they might obtain a better resurrection;
    36. and others experienced mockings and scourgings, yes, also chains and imprisonment.
    37. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were tempted, they were put to death with the sword; they went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, ill-treated
    38. (men of whom the world was not worthy), wandering in deserts and mountains and caves and holes in the ground.
    39. And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised,
    40. because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
    (NASB, 1995)
     
  15. DeafPosttrib

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    Good Morning.

    I did read Joey Faust's book - "The Rod". Mr. Faust quoted so many statements from scholars, commentators, pastors what they saying about millennial exclusion. He trying to prove us, that he is not alone to teaching on this, he showing us there is overwhelming proves from scholars believed in millennial exclusion. I don't care what if 10,000 people support it against 1 person opposite it. So what. "For what saith the scripture?" - Romans 4:3a. Listen what God's Word saying than what men saying. We have to be careful what we read books, listening teachers, pastors, etc. Never know what if they teaching error or misinterpreting the scriptures. Colossians 2:8 warns us, we do not let any men's teaching in their own philosphy spoil us. Let's stick with God's Word, what it saying.

    The question is, do you see any verse in the context of Matt. 25:14-30 mentioned, 'a thousand years'? Does Christ saying, "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth for a thousand years."? Or, does Christ saying a unprofitable servant shall be released out of the outer darkness after a thousand years? Silence.

    Matt. 25:30 does not support security salvation or chastenment. It is very clearly warn apply to us as servants, if any servant do not serve the Lord, shall cast into everlasting punishment - lake of fire.

    You have to accept and believe what Christ saying, do not resisting or struggling what Christ saying. Accept His Word.

    By the way, Matt. 24:14 does not saying preach the gospel for 'millennial kingdom'. Matt. 24:14 simple mean we are preaching the same gospel spread over the world since Early Church to today, and will continue through great tribulation till Christ comes at the end of the age.

    Christ tells us, we must to be endure to the end then shall be saved - Matt. 24:13. He said, "But he that shall ENDURE unto the end, the same SHALL be saved." Endure means to be patience and steadfast, not give up. Or, if give up and not abide in Christ shall not be saved according to John 15:6 - "If a man abide NOT in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them INTO THE FIRE, and they are burned."

    Onced to believe and accept Christ is not good enough go to heaven, we have to believing in Jesus Christ daily, we have to live by the faith, to endure for Christ all the way to the end - our death or Christ comes, then we shall be saved.

    Later I will discuss more about salvation doctrine with verses.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  16. blackbird

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    DeafPostTrib---you say, "Onced to believe and accept Christ is not good enough go to heaven, we have to believing in Jesus Christ daily, we have to live by faith, to endure for Christ all the way to the end---our death or Christ comes, then we shall be saved."

    First, lets just lay aside the idea that you are post-mil and I am Pre-mill and that others are A-mill---and yet others jokeingly say they are Pan-mill(it will all pan out at the end)

    What you're saying in your last statement above that I quoted is--and correct me if I'm wrong--but what you are implying is---our salvation is kept by our own righteousness---and not by the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ??

    Suppose you do that!! Suppose you endure and endure and endure---you cross every "tee" and dot every "eye"----you endure "by the book"---you are a picture of perfection----you get all the way to the end of your life, still hanging on to your endurance----but then----something happens----you stop enduring right before the end of your life---seconds before you die----somehow something happens that causes you to stop enduring-----and you fail to repent of that failure to endure and you fail to return back to that endurance----what happens then???

    Then what will you do when you die and find out that your endurance was not good enough??? Suppose you get to Heaven and you try to slip in on your credited endurance---and you hear the Lord Jesus Christ say, "I'm sorry, DeafPostTrib but you didn't endure AS WELL AS I thought! In fact, DeafPostTrib all of your endurance in the world didn't hold a candle to Mine----I can't let you in----suppose you hear that----what then??

    Not your righteousness that saves you but the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ imparted to you!

    Not your endurance that saves you but the endurance of the Lord Jesus Christ! You need to go back and re-read and reevaluate those scripture passages again!

    Your buddy,
    Blackbird
     
  17. DeafPosttrib

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    blackbird,

    Do you understand what Matt. 24:13 saying?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  18. DeafPosttrib

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    "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was ONCED DELIVERED unto the saints." Jude 3

    Jude tells us, onced after we heard the gospel, and repentance of our sins, we ought to be endure and and fight with our faith.

    Most people who onced heard the gospel, believed in Christ, will not endure and fight for Christ, many turn away, and stopped believing, stopped repent.

    2 Peter 3:17 says, "Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, BEWARE LEST ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own steadfastness."

    Peter tells us, when we learning the doctrines of the Bible, and know the doctrines, we must be watch out, and not let us being astray away with errors of the wicked, and fall away from the first love and our steadfast.

    If a person already know the things, did believed and repented for a while, then fall away into wicked.

    Obivously, there are many passages in the Bible teach conditional salvation. That we must be endure with our faith in Christ, as we always follow the Lord all the times. Or, if we do not endure in Christ, He might loosed us out of his hand - John 10:27-28, and cast us into fire - John 15:6.

    Later, I will give more verses talk about conditional salvation.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  19. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    HEY!

    Go start another thread to debate post-millenialism!

    Lacy
     
  20. Lacy Evans

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    Actually there are many who believe in Millenial Exclusion who don't believe you end up in Hell. Zane Hodges, Charles Stanley, the late AE Wilson, Arlen Chitwood, and my dear friend here in Midland, Fred Lybrand all come to mind.) Baptists, Brethren, Bible Churches are all well represented.

    Lacy
     

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