Minimum wage

Discussion in 'Politics' started by seekingthetruth, May 17, 2012.

  1. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    Did all liberals skip Economics in college?

    If you raise the minimum wage to say $20/hr, do you think that people will be better off and can buy more for their families? NO!!!

    Simple. The law of supply and demand. When people have more spendable income prices go up. When employers pay out more wages the costs are passed to the consumer by raising prices of their goods and services.

    If minimum wage went up to $20/hr then prices would triple and the poverty level would triple and then $20 would not be enough.

    Folks, raising the minimum wage will never stop. The cost of living will keep pace and keep people poor.

    Who it hurts the most are skilled workers that actually make $20/hr now. Every time minimum wage goes up their pay stays the same but the cost of living goes up.

    Minimum wage is a sham used by Democrats to get the votes of poor people. But it still keeps them poor.

    I forgot to mention that every time minimum wage is rasied, the value of the dollar shrinks on the world market, and forces us to borrow even more money to cover the interest on our past borrowing when the dollar was worth more.

    We end up losing in international trade, and increasing the money we have to pay on our debts because our dollar is worth less.

    Minimum wage is bad for everyone, rich and poor alike, and most importantly our nation as a whole.
     
    #1 seekingthetruth, May 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2012
  2. Salty

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    Here is another problem of raising the minimum wage:

    Suppose a small business has 5 employees, each working 40 hours per week. All at minimum wage.
    So there is a total of ( 5 x 40) 200 working hours per week @ $5 per hour = 1,000 dollars per week.

    If the minimum wage is raised two dollars per hour - that will cost the owner $2.25 per hour x 200 hrs = 450.00 per week.

    So the owner has one of two options:

    1) lay off one employee
    2) Reduce all employees hours by 15 hours per week - so less pay, and more work.

    Wow, the minimum wage sure helped the employees at that store.

    Or as STT stated the boss can raise the prices 15%, but since the business is for wants and not necessities, business falls - and the boss still has to lay off one or two (now) part time employees - which is even now more work for the remaining employees.
     
  3. Gina B

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    When minimum wage isn't enough to pay rent and still eat, it needs to be raised.

    When gas, food, heating, and rent rise, the minimum wage needs to rise with it in order to ensure that minimum wage remains enough for a person to live on. Nobody should expect it's going to provide more than the basics, but isn't the point of minimum wage supposed to be that an average family can survive on it?
     
  4. freeatlast

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    First the minimum wage is a necessary tool to keep unscrupulous employers from engaging in slave labor.
    Second it levels the playing field for competition instead of using the employee as the pawn.
    I would agree that the minimum wage should never be used to bring everyone on the same earning plateau as that would be socialism, but the minimum wage is a good thing if handled properly to insure that companies do not use their employees to get rich off their backs.
     
  5. freeatlast

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    I don't agree. If you cannot pay rent or eat then get two or three jobs or a better education. It is not the responsibility of the business world or the laws to make it where a person lives at a certain standard. The minimum wage is only to guarantee that the playing field is level and employers all are on the same level with entry level workers.
     
    #5 freeatlast, May 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 17, 2012
  6. Salty

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    No, the purpose of the minimum wage is two-fold:
    1) so the Representatives who vote for the bill get re-elected
    2) so unions can go back to the bargaining table and demand a pay raise as they feel they union members should not be getting minimum wage.

    I agree (I do ? :smilewinkgrin:) with Free - it is not the responsibility of the employer to pay a "living wage". Their responsibility is to pay a wage that is in line with the duties of the job held by the employee.

    Gina, suppose you hire a twelve-year old to walk your dog. He takes one hour to complete the round-trip. Are you going to pay a 12 year old 10-12 dollars just for walking your dog? I wouldn't -
     
  7. billwald

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    > If you cannot pay rent or eat then get two or three jobs or a better education.


    My father had to quit school in the 8th grade to help the family pay the rent. If that wasn't enough, should his sister also quit school and got a job. What if 4 people working in a cold water flat isn't enough to pay the bills?
     
  8. freeatlast

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    Yes the sister should also go to work if that is what it takes and if 4 people cannot make enough to pay the bills on the minimum wage let them all get extra jobs because they are living too high on the hog;
    Psalm 37:25
    I have been young, and [now] am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
     
  9. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    Gina, you have fallen for the ruse the Dems are playing.

    What you dont understand is that raising the minimum wage will make food, heating and rent go even higher, and the standard of living will stay the same. You can raise minimum wage to whatever amount you want to, but the standard of living will stay the same.

    You cannot legislate people out of poverty. The poverty level will rise just as fast as minimum wage does.

    John
     
  10. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth
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    When was this Bill? Back in 1922?

    The ironic thing is that today it is easier for a poor person to go to college than it is for a middle class to rich person to go. Why? Because the government will pay for a poor person to go with grants.

    There is no excuse for not having an education in today's world.

    John
     
  11. convicted1

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    It's not so much the minimum wage increases that is hurting this country, but companies which continually seek to raise their prices. Our local electric company continually seeks to raise our electric bill. They know they have us over a barrell, because they are the only ones we can get our electric from. Now, I can can take you all over the vicinity of where I live, and show you numerous places where trees are laying across the electric lines. They wait for it to break the lines, have to pay overtime for fixing a problem that shouldn't have been a problem to begin with, and then want to push the bill unto us, the victims...err, I mean, the customers.
     
  12. seekingthetruth

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    yes, utility companies do have a monopoly in most cases, but that does not change the fact that minimum wage is distructive.

    These are two seperate issues, both valid, but unrelated.

    Besides, if minimum wage goes up, your utilities will go even higher.

    John
     
    #12 seekingthetruth, May 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2012
  13. HeirofSalvation

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    Minimum-wage-proponents....You HAVE to study economics as a hard discipline with natural and unbreakable laws....Those laws of economics are heartless and inhumane....but we can work with them in order to provide the best system possible in order to work around them. They are Natural Laws, as hard and fast as those of Mathematics (literally) or Physics. You cannot legislate against them!!! Employers do not look at labour costs as a sum total of dollars expended...they look at their labour costs as a percentage of overall expenditures of overhead. When the dollar amount of the minimum wage increases...their percentage of labour-cost to overhead ratio increases...and THEY WILL cut labour...ORRRRRR.....increase prices......OR....usually some of both.
    Legitimate value is calculated upon supply vs. demand. Raising minimum wages increases supply of one thing...dollars. Therefore the intrinsic value of said dollar decreases, and ultimately....the same amount of dollars will simply purchase you less in terms of actual goods and services.

    Salty is absolutely correct....it is NOT the minimum-wage earning poor who jockey for minimum-wage-increases....it is NON-MINIMUM-WAGE-EARNING unions who do.....If the Union has bargained for $15.75 an hour, and they want to make a minimum of $16.75 an hour...they will fight for minimum wage to be increased from $6 an hour to $7 an hour.

    Question....If raising minimum wage is an economically neutral prospect...why not raise it to $100.00 an hour?

    This is why I am a proponent of literacy and Constitutional knowledge tests for voting rights. Ill-educated, ill-informed voters will be the death of this Nation long before terrorists or China will.
     
  14. HankD

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    IMO there is one thing that has a greater devastation on the economy than trying to manipulate wages at a governmental level.

    Printing more fiat money, expanding the money supply, this is part of this administration's strategy to redistribute the wealth (as an end result). It's a convoluted path from government bail-outs/hand-outs with inflated dollars to a dilution of the wealth of the citizenry, a delayed hidden tax if you will.

    My opinion of course.

    HankD
     
  15. InTheLight

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    No, the minimum wage is exactly what it says it is--an entry level job with minimum pay. No one should expect to pay rent, utilities, and buy groceries on the minimum wage. Certainly no family should expect it.
     
  16. billwald

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    >Question....If raising minimum wage is an economically neutral prospect...why not raise it to $100.00 an hour?

    Because two working people in one household do not need $100/hour to pay the rent and buy groceries.
     
  17. Oldtimer

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    This bears repeating!!!!

    Pay for services performed should be based on an agreement between two parties -- the person who needs the services (work) and the person who can do the work. If I can only pay $1 and hour and John Doe is willing to work for a $1.00 an hour, then the legal system shouldn't have any say in the matter.
     
  18. mandym

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    Not every industry can support a living wage. Nor should it be expected to. We live in America where we have the freedom. If you need more than what Mc Donalds can pay then go somewhere else. No body owes you anything.
     
  19. targus

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    I think that the current federal minimum wage is sufficient for two people to pay the rent and buy groceries.

    If the minimum wage were to be tripled...

    How much should the average union wage be increased?
     
  20. Acebopata

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    Minimum wage by nature is more effective as an effort to protect entry level workers than to provide the necessities of life, although it could be used to do so effectively if the person receiving minimum wages finds many, non-scamming ways to save money. However, designing a minimum wage to satisfy this usually just meets trouble.
     
    #20 Acebopata, May 18, 2012
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