Minium wage

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Salty, Mar 5, 2010.

  1. Salty

    Salty
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    I was watching CNBC today and the subject of the minimum wage came up.
    One guest said that if the govt raises the minimum wage, than many business cannot afford to hire someone for a job. Not always because of the extra $$ involved, but rather because a certain job may not be worth that much.

    Another "expert" said that if you don't give that single mother a minimum wage job, then she has to go onto welfare.


    Thoughts?
     
  2. targus

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    If an employer is unable to pay the minimum wage because the job is just not worth it then the single mother isn't going to get the job anyway.

    The hypothetical single mother should probably improve her education or skills so that she can perform a job that is worth more than minimum wage and everyone will gain.

    The single mother earns a wage sufficient to support her family.

    The employer gets an employee that meets his needs at a wage that is justified.

    The taxpayer wins because they are not paying for welfare.
     
  3. windcatcher

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    I can say one thing from my childhood experience when, as a teenager, I worked with siblings younger than myself picking veggies on a 'truck farm'. When the vegetables like okra and peas first start coming in..... they must be gathered, no matter how sparse, to keep the plants producing. Then it may seem to take forever to make a bushel basket. As the plants mature the production and gathering increases and goes faster. Still, it took all we collectively did to earn the money to run our family of 7 without any of us getting paid or an allowance.

    I don't know what modernization has accomplished in todays market..... but, when I price fresh vegetables by the bushel at the market.... I really don't know how a farmer can pay his help the minimum wage and still make a living for himself and his family. It's no wonder that so much of our food, even in season, is imported in from other areas where migrant labor picks it before maturity and its put into suspended storage to prolong its keeping as it is shipped/trucked to market.

    (Nothing to do with my farm experience of the 1960's but....... Today's minimum wage is about 2x that of 1980 for reference.)
     
  4. Martin

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    Who were the "experts" and what are they "experts" in? Seems like this kind of chicken little scare tactic is thrown up everytime a hike in the minimum wage is suggested.
     
  5. Salty

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    I just happened to catch the pgm real quick, while doing other things. Wish I could have remembered the mans name. Though there mention that he was a Jeopardy champion in 1988 (?).

    I found this link when I googled - not sure if it was Reich or not
     
  6. windcatcher

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    A mother with a dependant child making minimum wage has a gross income of $14,500/year, or $1208/month to live on, before reductions of taxes and SS. Her obviously large expenses are Housing, Utilities, and Food. Transportation and child-care expenses are also likely major expenses in her budget.

    She probably qualifies for food stamps.

    If there are other programs like for child care.... or public transportation available then these may be manageble.

    Otherwise, she doesn't have an income to support saving to buy a house, nor enough discrectionary funds to maintain one even if she can get a mortgage and make payments. Either she has employer provided health care or she's without as individual policies are prohibitive: A child may qualify for a wellness program by the state. Chances are she's renting an apartment which is subsidized against her income. She's likely on welfare of some kind even on minimum wage. It's not rocket science. Unless there is child support in the picture...... she is strapped for cash even on paydays.

    Imagine one's own children, trying to live independantly on this income without dependants. Are they having to make car payments, pay car insurance? Are they having to double up to rent a decent place in a good part of town? Are they having to buy their own health insurance? Are there other expenses like tuition, books and supplies, or school loans demanding payment? Do they have the time to plan and prepare nutritious meals, or is their scheduled so strapped that they compromise their nutrition with fast food or calorie filled cheap and ready eat snacks?........ Just adding a thought: When one visits them and talks 'money' is it being realistic and sympathetic........ or are one's own ambitions and values for adding to their pressures?
     
  7. targus

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    So how much of an increase in the minimum wage would be required for her to have an acceptable lifestyle?

    And how many others would lose their jobs as a result of increasing it by that much?

    Wouldn't such a single mother be better off if she aquired the skills necessary to obtain a better paying job?
     
  8. MrJim

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    No one makes minimum wage at our factory, no one would work there.
     
  9. puros_bran

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    The problem with Min Wage increases are the price increases that always goes with them..The low wage earners aren't effected because they recieve the appropriate 'raise' to offset the price increase. The wealthy aren't really effected that much because the extra 30-40-50 a week price of living increase doesn't phase them. The 'middle class' (whatever that is) gets hit with a lowering of buying power.
     
  10. donnA

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    small businesses would soon be firing epople and expect more work from those employees they keep. Of course some would even close down becasue they couldn't pay higher wages and can't exist with fewer employees. I know several of these types businesses here.
     
  11. windcatcher

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    Its her life.
    Whether by choice or by unavoidable circumstances, I didn't make her bed, and I can't tell her how to live.

    Answer your own questions.......
    And while you're at it, tell me how you expect her to work a job, take care of a child and increase her skills or go to school without help from somewhere....
    At least she didn't abort to make her life easier!
    If 7.25 sounds like living wages to you, then fine.

    Like it or not....... this is the economy and hope we're passing to our children.
     
  12. targus

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    I agree.

    Help for somewhere?

    Her family, her church? A childcare co-op?

    There are probably as many solutions as there are people in such circumstances.

    She didn't just wake up one day and find that she had suddenly become a single woman with children and no employable skills - unless she is a widow.

    Most people aren't handed a living. Most people have to work for it.

    Why should this hypothetical single mother be any different?

    IMO - increasing the minimum wage would do nothing to help such people and most likely would put even more people out of work.

    I agree - that is good.

    Where did you ever get the idea that the minimum wage is supposed to provide a living wage?

    Do you also think that social security alone should provide completly for retirement?

    Like it or not....... this is the economy and hope we're passing to our children.[/QUOTE]
     
    #12 targus, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2010
  13. Salty

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    How to get help
    1. Where is the kids dad?
    2. Can Grandma and Grandpa help out
    3. Would her church help out
    and I am sure there are possibilities

    or does she not want to use directions as given by # 1,2, and 3?
    there are often 3 sides to a story

    and no one ever said $7.25 is a living wage. But is it the responsibility of a business to pay a "living wage" of course not! A smart business will pay a wage in line with the responsibilities and duties of a job? -

    I always like to give this example:
    Jack gets his first job at a minimum wage of $5 per hour.
    over the next 12 months he does an excellent job and even gets a small promotion. Therefore he receives 3 longevity raises and on promotion raise; after one year he is now making $6 an hour.
    The same week he starts at $6 a week - the minimum wage goes up to $6.25 an hour - nice to get an extra pay raise.
    But now the boss hires someone brand new. With no experience, Jill is making $6.25 an hour - the same that Jack is making - is that fair - NO, of course not!
     
    #13 Salty, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2010
  14. windcatcher

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    [/QUOTE]


    I should have known..... ......... And minimum wages, if she gets a job, are much too good!
     
    #14 windcatcher, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2010
  15. windcatcher

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    Hey Jack! BTDT and didn't complain nor 'not fair' ever crossed my mind.
    I thought this discussion was about the meits of the minimum wage for a single mother.....
    There's merit for her for working.

    How would she do on welfare....... I have no idea. Don't know..... but if it pays better theres no point in her working........ But that's Targus choice.
     
  16. targus

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    Where did you ever get that idea?

    I have stated more than once in this thread that such a hypothetical single mother should improve her skills and qualify herself for a better paying job.

    Why do you think that the only choices are a minimum wage job or welfare?
     
  17. targus

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    It would seem that your trolley has slipped the track.
     
  18. windcatcher

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    You're the one who began quoting me and turning everything into an argument.

    :sleeping_2:
     
  19. donnA

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    at this point there is no help for her, shes trapped right where she is, because there is no real and meaningful help.
     
  20. poncho

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    Wouldn't it just be easier and cheaper to outsource her job to China or India and let her and her child starve or have the government force what few taxpayers are left into paying her way?

    The only poeple who care about American workers are American workers.

    They're corporate overlords sure don't give a hoot they just want to make the loot.

    Take me for example.

    The only raise I've gotten in three years is in the amount of hours I am now forced to work. I have 26 hours overtime this pay period alone. I've had two maybe three Staurdays off since Christmas but I still can't afford to buy a 13 dollar steak. I don't know how anyone can make it on 7 dollars an hour.

    All this overtime is why I'm not here as much as I used to be. I just haven't got the time or energy to post much anymore.

    But good news! Since the company took us off the bonus program two years ago we've had one record month after another as far as profits go!!! We never had one before then. So must be they were paying us too much eh?
     
    #20 poncho, Mar 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 6, 2010

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