Miracles Today

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Gina B, Sep 22, 2003.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    Do you believe that God still performs miracles today, as in old testament times? Is it wrong to ask God for a miracle? For example, would it be wrong to seek medical treatment for a brain tumor, and instead trust in God to perform a miracle and heal you himself instead of a doctor? Is the presence of medical specialists and doctors in every city a sign that we have fallen away from faith, or a sign that God has provided us with miracles through a different means that straight out healing coming down from the hand of God himself without the intervention of modern (or herbal) medicine?
    I spoke with a mom recently who refused to vaccinate her children. She believed that faith in God was the correct way to go. I disagree with her. Which one of us is caring for our children in a more Godly manner? Am I teaching my children to have faith in men instead of God by vaccinating them against deadly or debilitating diseases? If I do not vaccinate and one dies from one of the diseases they prevent, was it just how God wanted it or was I wrong to just ask for a miracle instead?
    Gina
     
  2. Johnv

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    It's important to understand what a miracle is.

    A miracle IS NOT a work of magic. Jesus was the great physician, not the great magician.

    A miracle is a WORK OF WONDER. I see God's works of wonder every day. So to answer the question, yes, they happen today. If we can't see God's miracles today, which are often so obvious, we need to change our view.
     
  3. David Mark

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    I see many miracles each day. Lately I've seen so many that I have lost count of them...

    Dave [​IMG]
     
  4. Johnv

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    Imagine that you're trapped in a burning building. You ask God to save you from the encroaching flames. During your cry to God for help, a line of firefighters rushes in to remove you from the fire. Do you recognize that they are sent by God as a miracle, or do you wave them off to sit and stay in the building?
     
  5. dianetavegia

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    I Believe In Miracles

    Carlton C. Buck John W. Peterson

    Verse
    Creation shows the power of God,
    There's glory all around,
    And those who see must stand in awe,
    For miracles abound.

    Chorus
    I believe in miracles, I've seen a soul set free,
    Miraculous the change in one Redeemed through Calvary;
    I've seen the lily push its way up through the stubborn sod;
    I believe in miracles, for I believe in God!

    [​IMG]

    I cannot doubt the work of God,
    There's glory all around,
    And those who see must stand in awe,
    For miracles abound.

    The love of God! O pow'r divine!
    'Tis wonderful to see
    The miracles that He has wrought
    Should lead to Calvary.
     
  6. Chris1984

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    I think miracles do happen today just not in america. I have heard reports of persecuted Christians seeing God work like He did in acts. I dont see where it says God changes. I believe we in america are carnal and not pure like the church of persecuted countries.
     
  7. David Mark

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    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. ChurchBoy

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    This a gross generalization. Why would God not wonders in America?
     
  9. Johnv

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    I see them every day. And the last time I checked, I was in the USA.

    Carnality is the result of original sin, which is universal to all people, Christian and not.

    Jesus said, seek and you shall find. I'm sure that goes for the bad stuff, too, like carnal behavior.
     
  10. micahaaron

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    Answers:
    Yes
    no
    Yes and no
    Yes and no
    Both moms are caring.
    Can't answer that, only you and God knows.
    What if's lead to improper conclusions about God, us and the use of faith.

    MA
     
  11. Joseph_Botwinick

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    God also performed many miracles in the New Testament. Yes, I do believe that God still performs miracles. I watched a miracle come into this world on August 20, 2003, when my son was born. WOW!!!!!!!!!!

    Is it wrong to ask God for a miracle? For example, would it be wrong to seek medical treatment for a brain tumor, and instead trust in God to perform a miracle and heal you himself instead of a doctor?[/QUOTE]

    I think I know where you are going with this. Let me just say that a brain tumor is much different than a living breathing unborn baby. And NO, it is not ok to murder one life in order to save another. The ends don't justify the means anytime. And yes, I do believe that God can perform a miracle on a woman who has an ecoptic tubal pregnancy. There is nothing too big for my God. Yes, it is ok to have surgery on a brain tumor as you are not killing a living breathing Unborn baby. You are killing a tumor.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  12. Jim1999

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    Far too often we think a miracle must violate nature to be miraculous. Even in Old Testament times, a miracle was often an event of timing. God takes the natural to invent the miraculous.

    Some argue about the place the Children of Israel crossed the river, but there was more of a miracle in the timing. They arrived at the Reed Sea at the correct time. They crossed at precisely the right time...the pursuers did not. So, one can explain away the "miraculous" but it is difficult, yea, impossible to take away the precise timing.

    So, to-day. God gives us a punctured tyre and causes us to delay our journey....two miles down the motorway is a huge smashup, and you would have been in the middle. Just as much a miracle, as if someone swept you off your feet and out of harms way.

    Yes, miracles happen to-day, and as Joseph says, With God, all things are possible.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  13. Johnv

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    Sure it is. David slew Goliath. He killed him. He did not murder him.

    A man breaks into your house and threatens the life of your family. You bet I'm gonna fire a shot for the purpose of protecting my family. That's killing, but it's not murder. Self defense is, by nature, preserving the life of one at the expense of another, and its implication is that one life is threatened by the imminent actions of another.
     
  14. Gina B

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    Joseph, I believe you're missing the point I'm attempting to make. Let me attempt to rephrase, and before I do let me state that this is set out to be a CONVERSATION and discussion, not a fight or disagreement. This is an attempt by me to figure out how your mind works. (and CJ's and others)
    Now here's what I'm trying to figure out.
    Life and death.
    You seem to believe that we should not cause someone to die, ever. You even seem to believe we are not doing anything wrong if we interfere with the process of death, ie surgery for brain tumors, treatment for cancer, life saving techniques in emergency rooms, and preventative measures against deadly diseases by giving vaccinations.
    That is a method of controlling death, and an older human being is just as much a person as a unborn child is. You have stated that interfering with life is wrong. Why do you not believe that interfering with death just as wrong as interfering with life? Why don't you believe that both should be in God's hands, and God's alone?
    Gina
     
  15. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Sure it is. David slew Goliath. He killed him. He did not murder him.

    A man breaks into your house and threatens the life of your family. You bet I'm gonna fire a shot for the purpose of protecting my family. That's killing, but it's not murder. Self defense is, by nature, preserving the life of one at the expense of another, and its implication is that one life is threatened by the imminent actions of another.
    </font>[/QUOTE]None of these events are murder. An example of murder would be when one kills an innocent, defensless, unborn baby. That certainly is murder. None of those people in the above examples were innocent or defensless.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  16. Johnv

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    An innocent and defenseless unborn baby, whose existence will kill an innocent defenseless mother. While unborn baby is defenseless, and it has no control over its actions, its very existence is going to result in the death of an innocent person, and that innocent person has the moral right to take action to preserve her life.
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Never said that. I have absolutely no problem with capital punishment, self defense, and war. None of these are remotely related to abortion. The baby is defensless and innocent. When you actively proceed to kill an innocent, defensless, unborn baby, you are committing murder.

    You even seem to believe we are not doing anything wrong if we interfere with the process of death, ie surgery for brain tumors, treatment for cancer, life saving techniques in emergency rooms, and preventative measures against deadly diseases by giving vaccinations.
    That is a method of controlling death, and an older human being is just as much a person as a unborn child is. You have stated that interfering with life is wrong. Why do you not believe that interfering with death just as wrong as interfering with life?
    [/QUOTE]

    With a brain tumor, you are not committing murder in order to save a life. With abortion, you are.

    Why don't you believe that both should be in God's hands, and God's alone?
    Gina
    [/QUOTE]

    They are both ultimately in God's hands. But, in the case of a brain tumor, one does not have to committ murder to remain alive. In the case of abortion, one does. That is the difference. I don't believe that it is a problem to have legitimate medical treatments (abortion is not one, IMO) for legitimate medical illnesses (an unborn baby is not one). But to say that you are going to murder your baby and justify it by saying it is to save your life is sick and perverse. Sorry. It just doesn't fly with me and the comparison is really pathetic and desparate.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. Joseph_Botwinick

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    An innocent and defenseless unborn baby, whose existence will kill an innocent defenseless mother. While unborn baby is defenseless, and it has no control over its actions, its very existence is going to result in the death of an innocent person, and that innocent person has the moral right to take action to preserve her life. </font>[/QUOTE]They may have the legal right, but there is no moral right to murder.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  19. Jim1999

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    someone knock that choo choo of the one way track..This thread is about modern miracles.the abortion thread is up the hall.
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Actually, Jim, if you look at Gina's last post, you will see that she even admits that the not so hidden agenda in this thread is to attempt to justify murder in the case of Tubal Pregnancies.

    "Joseph, I believe you're missing the point I'm attempting to make. Let me attempt to rephrase, and before I do let me state that this is set out to be a CONVERSATION and discussion, not a fight or disagreement. This is an attempt by me to figure out how your mind works. (and CJ's and others)
    Now here's what I'm trying to figure out.
    Life and death.
    You seem to believe that we should not cause someone to die, ever. You even seem to believe we are not doing anything wrong if we interfere with the process of death, ie surgery for brain tumors, treatment for cancer, life saving techniques in emergency rooms, and preventative measures against deadly diseases by giving vaccinations.
    That is a method of controlling death, and an older human being is just as much a person as a unborn child is. You have stated that interfering with life is wrong. Why do you not believe that interfering with death just as wrong as interfering with life? Why don't you believe that both should be in God's hands, and God's alone?
    Gina "

    Joseph Botwinick
     

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