Missions: Billy Graham crusade

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by longshot, Jun 22, 2002.

  1. longshot

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    Cincinnati is hosting a Billy Graham crusade next weekend at Paul Brown stadium. I've never been to one and it seems to have a big time flavor to it. I may go down with a group from church, if nothing else, then out of curiosity. Seems to be a lot of different denominations working together in this. I have noticed that on this board there are some (many?) who are not big fans of Mr. Graham but not many reasons are given as to why? My question to the board is this: What do you see as good/bad about his crusades? Would you take the oportunity to go if you were in my place? Please, no bashing as this man has much respect in many areas. But some things I have read in other threads has me curious. Once again, thanks for any input. [​IMG]

    [ September 27, 2002, 05:56 PM: Message edited by: The Squire ]
     
  2. donnA

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    He did a crusade last year in Louisville. I really wanted to go(the area was just really complicated and I've never driven ther so I knew I couldn't do it), I didn't think I knew anyone going. Till a week later, I found a few who went.
    So I would go if I were you and you already know you like him.
     
  3. blackbird

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    In his "Hay" days as a flaming evangelist he would really "get with it." Had a lot to say about Communism, Castro and that nasty Cuban missle crisis. Here toward the opening of the 21st century--I don't know--he sort of mellowed out--doesn't "bash" as many anti-christ religions(Muslim, Hindu, etc.) as he used to(you ought to hear some of his pre-'70's tapes). I'm not knockin' the man--now--but it seems here lately(I've heard) he's more into this "vegetable soup" type of religion--where anybody can come to God basically bypassing the Lord Jesus Christ. In closing, one day "the bus" is going to leave and it won't wait on the Buddist, nor on the Hindu, nor on any Muslim--God's bus only waits on folks who repent and recieve Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. Surely Brother Billy knows that "the bus" will wait only on those saved by the blessed Lord Jesus!
     
  4. pinoybaptist

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    When I was on the Arminian side, I turned on the TV wherever Mr. Graham had his crusades, or if he was having it in my country, the Philippines, I would go to the crusade.
    However, during those times what I noticed was that those who "received" Jesus Christ were told, after counselling, to stay in whatever church they were members of, and if they had no church at all, to look for any bible-believing, bible-preaching church, which, (the thought had been nagging me at the back of my mind then) was rather vague.
    These days, I understand that they had to do it that way because of the ecumenical flavor of the crusade.
     
  5. swaimj

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    Anyone who wonders whether Graham's crusades/ministry have had a positive effect or not should check out some good sources and draw conclusions according to the facts. Some suggested sources:
    A recent book authored by Ian Murray (someone help me with the name of the book if you know it). Murray is British evangelical who writes in detail of the negligible effects of Graham's work in England upon the general populace and of the negative effect that it had on evangelicalism in particular.
    Another book which casts Graham in a poor light is Reforming Fundamentalism by George Marsden. The book is the story of Fuller Seminary and reveals Graham's complicity with compromise on the issue of inerrancy.
    Another source would be the transcript of Graham's interview on ABC's This Week With David Brinkley which aired back in the 80's after Graham conducted a crusade in the Soviet Union and said he saw "no evidence" of persecution of churches in that country. For secular media people like George Will and Sam Donaldson to have to point out the error of this statement to Graham is shameful.
     
  6. Monergist

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    The name of the book by Ian Murray is Evangelicalism Divided printed by Banner of Truth.
     
  7. Grasshopper

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    Is Billy Graham perfect? NO! But he seems to be a man that God used in a mighty way in this generation. God will judge him and his obedience just as he will do us. Don't measure a man with numbers or lack there of, but with his committment to the call of God. Be careful.
     
  8. blackbird

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    "Ahh, well said 'Grasshopper'!" I ain't bashin' the famed evangelist. All I do(as well as others)is read what others have written, as well as read lots of works Brother Billy has done himself.
    In his younger days he set goals for himself and one of those goals was to be able to meet every U. S. President that would let him meet them. He almost made a fiasco from his first attempt with meeting President Harry Truman. But I believe that the media was partly to blame for that little episode. He fared off better with his meeting with President Dwight Eisenhower.
    Allow me the time and space to share a personal testamony here. Some years ago while I pastored in Florida I ran across a elderly lady who told me how she got saved. Years ago Brother Billy was holding a crusade in the greater Baltimore area in which she was living at the time. She happened to be a Catholic nun at the time and was living in the local convent. She was invited by a friend to go to "some stadium" to hear somebody singing(Cliff Barrows). She checked with her "Mother Superior"(or whatever). Mother Superior says, "Sure, go ahead!
    So there goes this nun lady with her friend to the stadium. Had that Catholic Habit on! She heard Cliff sing and then Brother Billy got up to preach. She told me, "Ohhh! I was 21 years old at the time! Was raised Catholic! And for the first time in my life there at that Baltimore stadium that night--I heard the gospel of Jesus preached to me!"
    She told me she got gloriously saved that night. Went back to the convent. Told Mother Superior what happened and got kicked out of the convent soon afterward! That's the gospel!
    So, no I ain't bashin' Brother Billy. Just wondering about his seemingly shaky theology he seems to have at times. Sorta like ole Peter chowin' down with the Gentiles until those Jews showed up. If Jesus is the only way to be saved(and He is!) then lets not go "dine" with the Muslim, Hindu, or Buddist. Lets not say, "He is and he is and that person over there is, and him, too" Lets preach the gospel of "no other name!"--Jesus! Amen?!!
     
  9. Monergist

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    And how do you measure his commitment to the call?

    I would suggest measuring him, and any other preacher, by the scriptures. [​IMG]
     
  10. Bugman

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    There is no doubt God has used (is using) Billy Graham to bring many people to him, this does not neglect the fact however that there are many things that he has done (are doing) that are wrong. I think it's great when a person becomes truely saved at one of his meetings, but I think that many souls have been also set on the wrong path becasue of what he has done/said.

    http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/grahamrome1.htm
    Has a nice article on this.

    Bugman
     
  11. All about Grace

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    It's very easy to bash Billy Graham b/c he is such a public figure and has made his fair share of "mistakes" over the years in methodology and even certain statements he has made (though many of them were taken out of context--such as the infamous "Billy Graham doesn't believe in a literal Hell" statement). Yet to attend a BG crusade or to be involved in the pre/post crusade efforts is to realize that the man does everything in his power to a) share the gospel as plainly as possible, b) have every person who comes forward dealt with personally, c) to plug those individuals into a local church, and d) to involve as many evangelicals in the process as possible.

    One may not agree with everything BG says or does but there is no doubt that God's hand has been upon his ministry. Read his autobiography and other biographies about him and you will discover a man who is sold out to God.

    To criticize Billy Graham is to criticize a man who has been used by God in a way few individuals will ever experience.

    God bless Billy Graham and may God raise up many more who are given the opportunities to share the gospel on a public platform like he has been granted.

    BTW, whoever suggested in an earlier post that Graham has shied away from an exclusive gospel ought to be ashamed. To hear him preach is to know that he believes Jesus and Jesus alone is the only way to Heaven.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    He has questioned this as far back as the 70s which can be documented from various sources. Graham has been disobedient to Scripture and that is inexcusable. While no doubt, many have been saved, that is no excuse for the willful rejection of biblical standards and the elevation of apostates and unbelievers to positions of authority in his crusades. For a man with so much potential, he has not done nearly what he could have for teh cause of Christ. While I rejoice in the souls that have been saved through his many, I am saddened to think of what could have been done for biblical Christianity by him.
     
  13. All about Grace

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    Show me one piece of evidence where Billy Graham has said Jesus is not the exclusive way to Heaven.

    What is the willful rejection of biblical standards & the elevation of apostates and unbelievers?

    You are right ... the millions of people who have come to Christ in his ministry is definite evidence that he has not lived up to his potential and done what he could have for the cause of Christ ... GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

    I am saddened at what could be done in ministry if people with a "my way is the best and only way" mindset would get off their high horse and recognize God uses people far different than me to advance his kingdom. After all since I am not God, I may just be the one who is wrong and not the Billy Grahams of the world (just don't tell my friends that).
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    McCall's magazine, Jan, 1978: "I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost -- were going to hell -- if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God -- through nature, for instance -- and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God."

    "In recent years, Graham has shown particular affection for the Jews. LIke most Christian Fundamentalists, Graham once believed that jews, too, were lost if they did not convert to Christianity. Today, Graham is willing to leave that up to God. "God does the saving," Graham asserts. "I'm told to preach Christ as the only way to savlation. But it is God who is going to do the judging, not Billy Graham."

    "I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant, particularly if the parents are Christians and teach their children Christian truths from childhood. We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christians through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that's all right with me" (10/10/61, The Lutheran Standard).

    "He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven. ... I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived. (from an interview with Robert Schuller, in Foundation magazine, June 1997).

    He has as sponsors men who deny such fundamental doctrines of salvation by grace alone through faith alone, the virgin birth of Christ, the inerrancy of Scripture, etc. We are commanded to separate from these types (Rom 16:17-18; 2 Cor 6:14-7:1; Jude 3; Titus 1:9; etc.). Graham, when confronted and called to respond in biblical obedience refused.

    This is not about a high horse. This is about biblical obedience. At times, people get emotionally associated with an organization or a person and fail to be able to discern the truth about it. This is indeed unfortunate. Our call is to biblical obedience and discernment. We must adhere to biblical truth. There is not one person's soul that is saved through disobedience that would not have been saved through obedience.

    While I do not endorse all of either of these two links, both give well documented information of the kind you are asking me about. Please take time to read them.Billy Graham
     
  15. Pastor Larry

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    McCall's magazine, Jan, 1978: "I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost -- were going to hell -- if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God -- through nature, for instance -- and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God."

    "In recent years, Graham has shown particular affection for the Jews. LIke most Christian Fundamentalists, Graham once believed that jews, too, were lost if they did not convert to Christianity. Today, Graham is willing to leave that up to God. "God does the saving," Graham asserts. "I'm told to preach Christ as the only way to savlation. But it is God who is going to do the judging, not Billy Graham."

    "I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant, particularly if the parents are Christians and teach their children Christian truths from childhood. We cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christians through infant baptism. If you want to call that baptismal regeneration, that's all right with me" (10/10/61, The Lutheran Standard).

    "He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven. ... I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived. (from an interview with Robert Schuller, in Foundation magazine, June 1997).

    Additionally, Graham has refused to condemn the false gospel of Roman Catholicism. He has joined hands with the Pope, Catholic bishops, and followers. He has turned people back into the Catholic church, accepted degrees from Catholic universities and colleges.

    He has as sponsors men who deny such fundamental doctrines of salvation by grace alone through faith alone, the virgin birth of Christ, the inerrancy of Scripture, etc. We are commanded to separate from these types (Rom 16:17-18; 2 Cor 6:14-7:1; Jude 3; Titus 1:9; etc.). Graham, when confronted and called to respond in biblical obedience refused.

    This is not about a high horse. This is about biblical obedience. At times, people get emotionally associated with an organization or a person and fail to be able to discern the truth about it. This is indeed unfortunate. Our call is to biblical obedience and discernment. We must adhere to biblical truth. There is not one person's soul that is saved through disobedience that would not have been saved through obedience. Understand that my beef is not with Billy Graham per se. He is a man of integrity personally and financially. But he is disobedient to God. And as God told Saul through the prophet Samuel, "To obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams."

    While I do not endorse all of either of these two links, both give well documented information of the kind you are asking me about. Please take time to read them. BILLY GRAHAM'S DISOBEDIENCE TO THE WORD OF GOD Billy Graham
     
  16. Chris Temple

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    Unfortunately, BG doesn't really believe this. It is the natural outgrowth of his Arminian theology, for he cannot bear the thought that there are people in the world who actually may never have a "chance" to believe (even though no sinner will believe apart from effectual grace).

    If he really believes that it was God who saves, he would accept the biblical doctrine that ""He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." Jn 3:36
     
  17. All about Grace

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    The McCall article is an old one that has been used repeatedly to try and suggest BG is not an exclusivist. CT followed this article and showed how BG's beliefs had been misrepresented.

    BG is not a theologian. He has made statements that suggest the fate of the unreached is in the hands of a God of love and mercy and grace. However I would argue that if he believed inclusivism, it would fly in the face of his very ministry. Why preach the gospel around the world if the unreached are safe?

    Has BG done everything perfectly in method and word? Of course not. Yet it does not seem appropriate or fair to label him blantantly disobedient to God's Word and purpose.

    Once again, it is a mindset. I have to recognize that God uses people in tremendous ways with whom I may disagree vehemently.

    Think outside the box!

    I can only pray God uses me in a small portion of the same way He has used BG.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    BG has never corrected those statements. In fact, he confirmed them to Lutheran, Catholics, The LA newspaper, Robert Schuller, and others. Even in the recent prayer service after 9/11, he gave credence to the beliefs of others by not taking a firm stand on the necessity of Christ for salvation. Even his son made a firmer statement than he made. No, he was not misrepresented in any way. He said exactly what he believes, and confirmed in unrelated interviews.

    Did you read those two links?

    I agree that it is a mindset. That is why our minds must conform to Scripture rather than to man's thinking. This was Graham's great failure 50 years ago and while he has done some good, it will never be what it could have been.
     
  19. All about Grace

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    I guess we can agree to disagree here. Once again, I am not suggesting BG has not said some things that causes conservative evangelicals to wonder why he said them. At the same time, there is no reason to believe BG does not believe in the exclusivity of Christ. His message is Christ and Christ alone.

    Perhaps what BG is saying is that God's grace and mercy goes beyond our mere human and finite understanding of it.

    Franklin definitely made a stronger statement than his father on the Islam issue. Does that make BG a compromiser? No. BG choses his battles and feels there is no need for him to close doors of opportunities that other may not have. That is his choice. He has not compromised the integrity of the gospel.

    If you are given a similar platform, you can say what you chose to say as well.

    I continue to marvel at your statements that BG's ministry has been somehow restricted. Can you name another preacher who has been given the opportunity to share Jesus with more people than Billy Graham?
     
  20. Chris Temple

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    Nope, what BG is saying is mimicking the errant doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church, and not what Scripture teaches. ;)
     

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