Missions & Support

Discussion in 'Missions / Witnessing / eVangelism' started by bruren777, Jul 8, 2005.

  1. bruren777

    bruren777
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    Our son went a short term mission trip to Bourg D'Oisans, France(the Alps) summer of '96, 1999 he went back for a 9 month internship. Since that time he and his wife have done some deputation, but support has been hard to aquire. We're told it's due to 9/11, people are reluctant to give. They are with Greater European Missions, GEM wont allow them to go unless they have 3/4s of their targeted funds. They are discouraged, but they trust in the Lord. With terroism maybe God is keeping them in the states.

    Our son went to Bethany College of Missions in Bloomington, MN. for 4 years. He was exicted to go to the mission field in France.

    As I said God may be keeping them in the U.S. a reason, earlier this year he was hired by Compassion International as building a engineer at there headquaters in Colorado Springs, Co. Albeit, it's not actually want he wants, but God is in control.

    My Pastor told me that the Baptist Assoc. supports their missioinaries. Gerald, however is a member of Calvary Chapel so that is why they have to do deputation.

    Does anyone know of missionaries whom are finding support to come by ? [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. exscentric

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    Two points. 9/11 has little to do with it, in my opinion. Back in the 80's the usa had a real downturn economically and many churches were in a world of hurt due to a drop in giving. The giving (in the circles I was in) never recovered after that drop. I have some thoughts on why - first it worried a lot of people about their money security, and secondly when their money started rolling in they just kept spending on things rather than offerings. (they got used to not giving.)

    We were on deputation back then and even before the decline the average was something like 3-5 years, and after it certainly did not get better.

    Very few get support quickly. I'd guess I could count on two hands the couples that I know of that have done it in under two years, many four or five.

    You are in WA. If your kids were doing deputation out here they have a double whammy, the northwest is one of the worst places in the country. If they try it in CO the midwest is much better and the east coast used to be the very best place to be.

    His mission should be able to tell him about these things or maybe his pastor.

    Going without 100% is risky with the dollar bouncing around like it is.

    Has he considered going as a tentmaker - this seems to be an easy way to do things if they have trades/occupations that they could find work in. The country may or may not allow foreigners to work, so they'd have to check that.

    My experience is mainly 10-20 years old, but from what I've gathered from more current missionaries, nothing much has changed.

    Churches are finding way too many things to spend money on and can't support missionaries like they used to.
     
  3. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    I am a missionary on deputation I can tell you it is hard right now and yes 9/11 is partly to blame.

    Christians in general are not giving like they used to since 9/11.

    The dollar is weak in Europe causing many missionaries their to need additional support.

    In two African nations, missionaries can now be taxed up to $7000 per family. This causes missionaries there to need additional support.

    Because of these situations, churches that do have increases in their missions budget are raising the support of their current missionaries rather than taking on any new ones.

    I have been on deputation for over two years. Some get done faster, others longer. Ultimatly it is in God's sovereign hand.
     
  4. exscentric

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    "I have been on deputation for over two years. Some get done faster, others longer. Ultimatly it is in God's sovereign hand."

    You certainly have the correct mindset. Where are you going to be ministering? Mission? If you don't mind telling us. If you would rather not that is fine.
     
  5. 4His_glory

    4His_glory
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    Well I try to maintain a degree of anoniminity here, but I can say that I am going to Argentina.

    I am a Baptist chruch planting missionary.
     
  6. exscentric

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    Thanks. "anoniminity" is good on boards [​IMG]

    Trust your support comes in quickly. We were on deputation five years and were barely to 30% when the Lord redirected us.

    The joy of the whole thing was getting to meet so many of the Lord's people all over the western half of the US. Hardly a time that I sat down to a meal, that the person and I had some Christian as a common aquaintence - usually more than one.
     
  7. 4His_glory

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    Thankfully we have much more than 30% raised after two years, I believe we can finnish by the end of next spring- Lord willing.

    Deputation is a ministry too, and a very unique one at that. Some missionaries tend to forget that.
     
  8. exscentric

    exscentric
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  9. Gayla

    Gayla
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    I love to meet Missionaries on deputation or furlough. Just to hear them tell of their experiences and how God is blessing.
     
  10. shannonL

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    I'm a missionary on deputation. We have been at it for about 3yrs and only have 20% of our needed support. We are headed to Spain. It takes an unbelievable amount of money to live over there. The dollar is flopping all around. My wife was sick with thyroid problems our first year. So that made it extra difficult.
    I must say that I have seen God do some amazing things while on deputation. Yet, I'm beginning to wonder if God is redirecting us?
    The support is just not coming in. I'm faithful on the phones calling pastors,sending lit.. etc..
    4His Glory - Your right deputation is a ministry. I very much enjoy going out in meetings firing people up about missions etc...
    Being called to preach was my initial calling until I surrendered to missions. I've been praying about if God is redirecting us. One reason is if it has taken 3yrs to get 20% then it don't take a rocket scientist to figure out that unless God really brings in the harvest We are going to be looking at a very very long deputation ministry. So I don't know?

    Exscentric, I would appreciate some insight from you as to how God redirected you? You could e-mail me. I would appreciate your input.

    As far as it goes in IFB circles it just seems like there are so many cliques or circles whatever you want to call them. The GARBC churches only want to help their people first. The BBF people look after their own. Then some want to know if your KJVO. Others only support people from their homechurch. Others only take in missionaries within a certain radius from their church. I could go on and on and on. Some don't believe in mission boards. Some won't support your ministry unless its church planting.
    Alot of churches have their pet mission boards who they will put first.
    So I think one of the big hold ups in getting IFB missionaries to the field is there is just no set way that one church does it. Gettting around to alot of IFB churches it seems to me that there is a shifting taking place in general. There are IFB churches that are very set in their ways as far as Bible versions dress etc... There are those that are kind of in the middle and there are those that are going all out contemporary. So the missionary on deputation has to be all things to all churches (in a sense) I believe you should stay true to your personal convictions. Those of you who have been or are on deputation know what I mean.
    I'm not discouraged. I'm just wondering what God is up to with us right now.
    Sometimes I think that God may be directing me to stay in the states and plant a church. I mean one major problem getting missionaries out is the fact that churches in america are in such bad shape. I mean I get into some good ones but brothers I get into alot of dead ones.
    Alot of churches just give lip service to missions. Also, it takes so much to keep the western christian satisfied with church . I wonder how much more money would be freed up for missions if so much wasnt'spent on programs here at home.
    Well as you can see I have strong feelings about these issues. I would enjoy hearing some other opinions.
     
  11. 4His_glory

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    Hi shannonl,

    Deputation is not easy, you know that well it sounds like, stick in there.

    What you say about IFB is true, but remember the letter "I".

    Part of the problem is that we have failed to properly educate the people in our churches. Statistics say that in your average IFB chruch only 15% of the congregation even tithes let alone gives to missions. That is sad. It means that there is a whole lot more money out there that is not being used by God's people in a way that pleases Him.

    Also do you ever notice how easy it is to spend money and not think about missions? I know that I can plunk down a good bit each week on "incidentals", a cup of coffee at the gas station, a new set of golf clubs on ebay, even though I don't need them, etc.

    There is a lot of money that people in IFB churches could be giving.

    I have also found that people don't really understand missions. They don't understand deputation, church planting, etc.

    I had one person tell me that they though all missionaries where salaried and then the support they raised was just extra!

    People don't understand the purpose of missions is to glorify God in all things.

    The bottom line is that the people in our churches need to be better educated.

    If God does redircet you to start a new church in the states, that is wonderful. We need them. And as a former foreign missionary on deputation, you can build on of the most missionary minded churches around.

    It would be tuff to be on deputation for 3 years and only have 20%. I can't imagine. I have been at it for 2 1/2 and have 53%. Just remember that God is sovereign. Thats what keeps me going. The purposes of God are never thwarted by the problems of man.

    God bless.
     
  12. exscentric

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    This may be more than you wanted, but thought I'd post it in case others were curious.

    Long story, but will try for a readers digest version :)

    Yes, God is soverign; thank Him for being the stable one, not us!

    Our mission leaders met with us yearly to evaluate things and we had met about a year earlier and they reluctantly allowed us to
    continue. They felt that God might be redirecting us. That was the first point in my considerations. We started praying about the possibilities along with praying for success asking God to work out His will in the situation.

    A few months later our church of several years (a GARBC church - we were with an independent, fundamental mission) voted on whether they would be our sending church or not. The vote was taken and a few days later the pastor, after visitation, asked to talk with me. He informed me that the church had voted to be our sending church - JOY! Then he told me that the church voted not to support us in any manner -- okay, so why send us was my thought but didn't say anything. That was point two, and when we started praying in earnest for an open door to respond to if He was closing the missions door.

    One day I was really burdened with how all this was affecting the family etc. and I laid myself out prostrate and just really asked God to bring an open door to another ministry if He wanted us to stop our efforts on deputation. I also asked that he would open the doors wide to deputation if that is what He wanted.

    A very short time later I received a call from a Bible school I had left a resume at about a year earlier (Just following the meeting with the mission leaders). I had stopped to visit and talked to the president and he had told me that their faculty was full but that I could leave a resume, which I did. The call was from the new president asking if I had left a resume recently. I told him no but that I had months earlier. He told me that it had just turned up in his mail box and wanted to know if I was still interested in a position there.

    I told him we would consider it, we drove out a couple weeks later for an interview and the rest is history. We had a full comfort with leaving deputation - not missions - for this wide open door. We were on missionary status at the school, had to raise our own support, which we had most of, and as I studied most of my subjects preparing for classes I found it easy to work missions into all aspects of what I was covering.

    It was a fantastic training ground for what I did as a teacher, and what I have done since as well. Now sixty five and not a regret from that leading, and I might add have reached more people abroad through the internet than I ever would have on the field.

    One thing that was in my mind most of this process was a comment by an old preacher I heard once. He said, Know that you are called, Know to what you are called, and Know the one that called you.

    I'm sure some would suggest a lack of faith as reason for funds not coming in, but not in our case. We built our shipping crates the first year and kept them in our two bedroom apartment anticipating our departure. We sold all we could and gave away a lot more. We always knew God would raise up the bucks when He was ready to have us leave.

    Trust this is clear as mud at least [​IMG]

    Would be glad to try to answer specific questions via email ([email protected]) if any are interested. I have talked with others that have gone through similar situations and have found it to be a varied situation, where God just was leading along and at some point made it clear that He was changing direction.

    Paul experienced this when he was planning to go one place and the Lord stopped him and said, no go here. Redirection isn't that abnormal, pastors go through it as well. I've known pastors that left pastorates to teach, to go to mission fields, to do many and varied things. I have known business men that have left good money to enter the ministry.

    He prepares us for His will and purpose and He uses strange ways to do it from a human perspective. Just keep behind Him and turn when He turns or you will be very lonesome :)
     
  13. shannonL

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    Thank you exscentric. I appreciate you sharing that with me. There was some good advice in your post. Thank you as well 4Hisglory.
     
  14. Gayla

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    I'm not a Missionary, but I love Missionaries!!!!!

    I have made an effort to educate myself a little about the "behind the scenes" stuff.

    I would also like to build more fire, passion, whatever it should be called for Missions at our Church. The attitude usually seems to be - another Missions Conference/Revival, big deal . ..
    It should be It's Missions conference time!!! WooHoo!!!! At least that's how I feel about it
     
  15. 4His_glory

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    Saddly many Christians today say big deal to a lot of things.

    Keep up that kind of spirit though, it can be infectious.
     
  16. TexasSky

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    The missionaries in my family reported downturns in financing via deputations before 9-11 happened. They did, however, find all their needs met via other methods. God is amazing.

    They seemed to feel the down turn was due to a variety of things.

    A tight economy.

    If a missionary has been in the field long, the churches on their tour may tend to view them as "strangers" no matter how hard the missionaries work at keeping in touch. It really requires someone in the home church to remind the church, weekly, that they committed to these folks.

    They also say that people at home often don't understand how different the field is, and they tend to imagine "instant" "measurable" results. While a missionary may feel a huge breakthrough has been made when they baptise 5 people of a village, the church back home wants to see numbers like 5 every Sunday. Education in missions helps. If someone is building a new church, the home church may expect to see images of Crystal chandaliers and velvet carpets, and be put off by the simple "storage shed" like buildings in some communities.

    They found that travel for deputation could be expensive. They cut down on the actual number of tours, and started using a LOT of email contact. They do still come home, if only to be uplifted by the spirit, but they travel less frequently.
     
  17. exscentric

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    There was a move in several groups back in the seventies that caused a lot of problems for independents. The groups got together and decided to finance their own people big amounts so that the missionary could gain support from four or five churches and lessen their deputation time and more convenient when on furlough.

    This was great for those that could find the four or five churches but really put a lot of churches out of reach for the independents.

    There was also a real big push for home missions about the same time in the independent church movements and that took a lot of finances from Foreign missions.

    One church we know of had many foreign missionaries twenty five years ago and right now they support a big majority of home people now.
     
  18. TexasSky

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    I think a lot of churches make the mistake of assuming large organizations like the SBC and AMB take care of the missionary financing.
     
  19. shannonL

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    I have churches that support me for 200.00 per month. I also have a church that supports me for 25 a month. The average seems to be 50.00 per.
    Alot of churches are now seeming to believe that 100.00 per month is good. Which I think it is for your average church.
    There are just so many different ways that churches support missionaries. Our home church runs about 300 people. They give tremendously to missions. about 130,000 per year. They support 110 missionares for 50.00 a pop. Pastor says he wants to raise every missionary to 100.00 per.
    At some point they just can't keep taking on new missionaries. Unless the church just keeps growing. Which it is we have plans for new campus and everything. The problem is though that alot of churches have this same template for supporting their missionaries and their church is not growing.Therfore there will come a topping off point in that particular church with missionaries unless that church is healthy and growing. "missions across the street is vital to missions across the sea" no doubt about it.
     
  20. 4His_glory

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    My average is $100 a month, I have some that are more and some that are less. This may sound bad, but $25 a month isn't even worth the gas to drive to the meetings!

    Again I think a lot of this goes back to educating our people. They are still stuck in the days when $25 was accually worth somthing. Even $100 a month doesn't go as far as it used to.

    Yes there is a topping of point, or a satuaration point that churches reach in missions giving. When they do they need to be honest and upfront with missionaries who call for meetings and let them know the situation. I have been in many churches that I never knew their finaical situation till I drove all the way there.
     

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