MMF - Contemporary/band vs hymns/piano in worship service.

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Molly, Feb 26, 2002.

  1. Molly

    Molly
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    Okay,I'm sure this topic has been talked and talked about here. I'm in a church where the leadership supports a contemporaoy style with hymns and praise choruses. There seems to be 2 happy choruses at the beginning(very happy,no depth) and then 2-3 more serious ones and then a token hymn is thrown in to satisfy the traditional crowd,but all is done with keyboard,drums,electric guitar,piano,oh,and the praise team,etc. The music seems very shallow to me,like we have dumbed down worship cause the other was a bit boring(?). I'm just curious,does this sound like a blend to you? My husband and I have struggled in this area,trying to still worship a holy God,but being distracted at times,too. We also disagree with the philosophy of anyone putting style above the Word,or adapting oneself to make church more appealing to unbeliever's. We can NOT do either of those things. We got that part down,just curious,what you think about the music in and of itself. Is one kind of song better than the other,is one style of music better or more appropriate for corporate worship,and what would you do if the only biblically based church with very in depth worship style,content everything right was 1 hour away? Is music something you could leave a church over? Why or why not? By the way,we are raising 2 daughters who we feel very convicted about them learning the great hymns of old,so we are teaching those at home. What to do? Any opinions would be very helpful here.....

    [ September 14, 2002, 07:38 AM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]
     
  2. Aaron

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    Molly,

    You must leave the church.

    For a good discussion of the issues, there are two new books I would like to recommend:

    Oh, Be Careful Little Ears By Kimberly Smith,

    and Let Those Who Have Ears to Hear also by Kimberly Smith.

    You may also visit my site for Biblical disussions of the issues and links to other Resources.

    Discernment

    [ February 26, 2002, 10:56 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  3. Molly

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    I just read your web page,well,not all of it,but got your general teaching part. I agree with you on most things. I guess staying would be causing disunity and we would eventually be a problem,but with my husband in a leadership position,well kinda,do you think we should remain to help things be better or more what they should be. Leaving seems like we are giving up and leaving everyone else with the problem. There are quite a few people who are like minded with us. Is there a chance of helping that church be more pleasing to God?
     
  4. TomVols

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    As a Pastor, I've become convinced that once the issue of Scriptural structure, content, and purpose are resolved, worship styles are simply a matter of preference.
    There are some very shallow choruses out there, and some very worshipful ones. There are some great hymns of the faith, and then there are hymns that are as Biblical as an N'Sync song. There are a few good Southern gospel songs, and then many are as Scripturally shallow as you can get.
    But one thing I'm also convinced of: we spend far too much time analyzing preferences to the neglect of Scriptural content, structure, and purpose, with special emphasis on the neglect of the last two.
     
  5. donnA

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    We have blended music in our church. We sometimes worship with the band, bit not real frequently, with contemporary praise we have a clavanova( a fancy key board, does lots of different instrument sounds), and guitar. We do have traditioanl hymns, with piano and organ.
    Thriugh the contemporary praise times I have learned how to more fully worship God throught the traditional. I love it. I have a much deeper worship life now, because I have learned more about worship, and what worship is.

    I think I need more explaination here.
    Isn't that the same no matter which music you prefer then.
    On adapting, I don't have the reference, but Paul said I have become all things to all men that some might be saved. There is no certin music style in the bible, it is whatever leads people in worship, and draws unbelievers to the gospel.

    It is based on personal opinion, and likes and dislikes. your church is no more christian or correct if it uses only old hymns, or no less christian or correct if it uses blended/contemporary praise.

    No because like I said, it is a matter of opinion.

    What about doctrines? You need to base which church you will be a member on on doctrines taught, then next would be worship style. And thats all it is, style.

    At one time those 'old' hymns were new, and people were suspect of them also, they did not like them, and it was hard to get those 'old' hymns in the church. People were against them.
    Many of the hymns in our hymn book are not all that old, a lot less then 100 years old. People always think what was is the best, it was better then. It wasn't necessarily better, just different.
     
  6. Molly

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    Katie,let me clarify. Doctrine is the most imporatnt thing to us and yes,that is what I meant about the other church...it has correct teaching,everything that is right. I would never join a church based on style,but would go to one that I PREFER,but I feel that is why some people join a contempoary,for the style. It goes both ways.
     
  7. Molly

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    About your question,it goes back to the underlying idea of what church is to be. I believe church is for believers and that we are to go out and witness Jesus Christ to a lost world,not make church appealing to unbelievers,they don't know cause they are not believers....Church should be like nothing they ahve ever seen. they can't worship,thay don't know Jesus.I think so many adapt a style to reach lost people,therefore downgrade everything,so that others will come to know Christ, I believe that is not neccessary at all. We need spiritually mature people learning and growing through having the meat of the word taught,studied,etc. The word of God works and man's ways do not. The style is what I am most concerned with...because I feel it should match the teaching.not be worldy or used as evangelism. It should be true worship of a Holy God and the words should teach us more about God....like most hymns. Yes,I agree some are not good. Maybe we should discern which songs are good and scriptural and not base it on when they were written. Soem new ones are not written well,and also contain no teaching.
     
  8. donnA

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    There just has to be more to this then the music. Praise sones can not be displeasing to God, only to the one hearing it, based on opinions about persoanl tastes in music.

    hen like I said, there has to be more to this then just the music. IS the church yur presently in have some doctrinally unbiblical things going on, or is just the music? Becasue there are some very biblical praise songs out there.

    It needs to be the one God prefers you in. Which mat have nothing to do with what you prefer.

    I do not believe praise and worship is a downgrade of anything.
    In this case since church and worship is for believers, then we don't need the gospel preached, we need more meat for the maturing of christians. Since I am already saved I need more deeper things of the word, to help me grow. Thats what your saying.

    And how do you know it is not? How do you know it is unacceptable to God?

    You are, when you said the songs in worship need to be the old hymns, but then don't like it when someone does the samething you did.
    Some old one are not written well either.
    Your whole post was based on the age of the hymns.
    I don't think so, I think it is different etyles of worship and you have your preference, but don't put down other worshipers, and feel more superior. We were warned about that in the bible.

    Paul said I have become all things to all people, that some might be saved.
    Now how woule we today do that?

    Oh, and in my church, and every church I know, unbelievers are welcome to come and worship and learn about God. Everyone worships, everyone worships something or someone. We worship God. What makes you think unbelievers are unable to worship? Theres a lot in the bible about that, but thats another post.
     
  9. Aaron

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    Molly,

    It depends on what you want your children to learn. Do you want them to think that God approves of sensual music (rock) in worship? Then stay there. Do you want them to learn to put a difference between the holy and the profane, the clean and the unclean? Then leave. It is admirable to want to stay and correct a situation, but it will turn into a big fight.

    If you wish to approach the situation, I would suggest a letter of appeal like this one:

    An Appeal

    No matter what you teach your children at home, what you may endure in moderation they will learn to excuse in excess.

    That's my opinion.
     
  10. uhdum

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    My friend, may I add one thing...I haven't posted here often, because of various things, but I just wanted to say...

    there is no such thing as "Christian music." Or "Secular music" for that matter. Only Christian lyrics and secular ones. Music is neutral...it is simply a chord progression played by a musical instrument.

    Perhaps certain chords or instruments or rhythms evoke certain feelings or emotions...this in know way is a knock on the neutral music piece.
     
  11. uhdum

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    If you feel the music is shallow, talk to someone about it. Before you leave a church you should seriously pray. If God wants you to leave the church because the music isn't right for you, then He'll let you know. I understand the different feelings on instrumentation and types of music in church, and I respect them all.

    The question you must ask is...are you worshiping God in the service. Whether it be hymns played on a piano and organ or more contemporary music played by a band (or a mixture of those), are you worshipping God?
     
  12. Daniel

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    Just be careful with one thing--let your SACRIFICE OF PRAISE (reference from the end of the book of Hebrews) be your best and what is pleasing in the ears and eyes of the Lord. Remember Cain vs. Abel. Think about the unblemished lambs required in the OT and in Christ's day prior to his death on Calvary. God's wants it the way He prescribed (unblemished) and from the correct heart (the heart of Abel). Food for thought, to say the least.... [​IMG]
     
  13. Thankful

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    In my opinion, some churches seem to be more interested in entertaining than worship. But then there is the agrument that it does get people to church to hear the Word. I for one am for the traditional type church with scriptual based hymns that can include the praise and worship songs that are so popular today.

    Sometimes, I think we place too much emphsis on what the youth of the church want, but they are the church of the future. Our church is trying to blend the ideas of the youth with the ideas of the seniors...seems to be working. Last night in church an 8th grader gave a testimony that was as moving as any that an older person would give.

    But it is important to find a church where one can worship God. I stayed with a church for over a year longer than I should have thinking that it was me not the church. One day the Holy Spirit led me to a new church... and that is another story...changed my life completely.
     
  14. Thankful

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    I agree with Uhdum. God will lead you to the correct church for you. It happened to me!!!!

    My new church has seen me through much sorrow and happiness. Although I did not intend to ever marry after my husband died, I now have a new, wonderful husband that I met at church - the church that God led me to.
     
  15. DHK

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    Revelation 5:
    8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
    9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
    11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
    12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

    There are well over 700 references to music in the Bible and every one of them have to do with worship; not evangelism, or entertainment, but worship. The scene from Revelation 5 is one of the most instructive concerning music and worship. If one could just imagine themselves in Heaven, as John was there, beholding that very scene. It says, "They sung a new song." The new song was a song of redemption. It was a song about the blood of Christ. It was not simply a shallow "Lord I adore you, or worship you." Shallow words to that effect could apply to any religion.
    Worship is literally "to proclaim the worth of." That is what this great throng of verse eleven did. In verse twelve they said, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches..." They proclaimed His worth. That is true worship.
    When we worship as we ought the medium always needs to fit the message. The message is glorious, holy, worshipful. And thus the medium, the music that carries that message has to fit with that same message. The music cannot be worldly, carnal, entertaining. It will not be suitable then for the message. The music itself must be holy and set apart for God. Music is not neutral contrary to some people's assertion. It has deadly consequences on peoples lives. It can cause people to rebel; it can put people to sleep; it can hypnotize; it can be deafening; it can be soothing; it can be anti-christ; it can glorify Christ. It is not neutral.
    In Revelation 5, you could rightly say that you do not know what kind of music was being played there. But you could also, by process of elimination, figure out what kinds of music were not being played there. Such an exercise might prove to be quite instructive. In the Bible music is always meant for worship.
    DHK
     
  16. Daniel

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    I am not picking up DHK's argument, just branching off of one facet--music's effect on people. We have a fresh example in our church. A young man is addicted (correct word) to hard-core rap. He has received fantastic training over the years, been to military camp, received honors in his high school, etc. But, apparently due to this hard-core rap he has left home, nearly physically hurt his parents, got involved in the wrong way with a girl, etc. This is a young man with a great personality and fantastic leadership capapbilities. NO, MUSIC IS NOT NEUTRAL!

    At this point someone like Aaron can pick DHK's post and run to the next step. Naturally, he will be opposed by the Ransom, Eric B and possibly the Smoke Eater group, but we might as well go at it one more time...

    Only, brethren, don't resort to the pettiness that some of these threads have exhibited. It has been appalling to witness the childish immaturity exhibited in this particular forum. LET'S NOT GO THERE!!! ;)
     
  17. Daniel

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    [ March 19, 2002, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Daniel ]
     
  18. AdoptedDaughter

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    "You must leave the church"? Aaron,by telling Molly that she must leave the church is completely judging the intents and motives of the church. You cannot tell everything about a church by the music that they sing. These following lyrics have been sung using contemporary styles of music. Because it has been sung in these styles, does it make these lyrics wrong or unholy or unacceptable?

    You tell me:

    "I will sing to the Lord, for he is highly exalted. The horse and its rider has hurled into the sea.
    The Lord is my strentgh and my song; he has become my salvation. He is my God, and I will praise him, my father's God and I will exalt him."

    These are lyrics to a Contemporary Christian song. Tell me where the faulty doctrine is. The church that I attend does not have a lot of choruses, but when we do sing them our hearts are worshiping God, not music or anyone else.

    Who are any of us to say who should be at what church? Before we judge the music, let us judge the doctrine. If we, then, find faulty doctrine then we should be thinking if we should be there or not.

    Just because a generation worships differently than you or I does not mean that they are worshiping in vain. I admit that my worship style is very mixed. When I am at home I listen to Contemperary Music, but I also play the hymns of old. We do not sing the same songs that Jesus sang, so does that mean that our worship is in vain? No, it does not. It just means that we live in a different time and people have written songs of praise to our God and Savior. If our hearts are not in the right place, then our worship is in vain. If it is in the place that it should be, focused on God, then whatever music that we sing, granted the lyrics should be doctorinally correct, is worship in the ears of God.

    In Christ's gracious love,
    Teresa

    [ March 19, 2002, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: baptistforever ]
     
  19. sjd

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    The nub of the question is what style/styles of music fit that description. Are there certain styles that are inherently evil? Does the arrangement of the notes really make a difference? What makes music worldly or carnal? What makes some music holy and some unholy?Can music that is entertaining be holy? Can we enjoy the music that we worship God with? What makes the music suitable/unsuitable?

    Steve
     
  20. Daniel

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    Premise: Abstain from all appearance of evil.(I Thess. 5:22)

    HOW DOES THIS THING LOOK (or for the thing in question--)HOW DOES THIS THING SOUND?

    IS THIS LOOK/SOUND PREDOMINANTLY ASSOCIATED WITH EVIL PEOPLE, MESSAGES, ETC.

    If so, avoid it. If in doubt, don't do it. Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Romans 14)

    Why do we make this thing so hard?

    He who shouts the loudest is the most guilty.

    SELAH..................
     

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