MMF - How CCM Causes Our Youth to Compromise

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Aaron, Nov 21, 2001.

  1. Aaron

    Aaron
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  2. Ransom

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    Two Bible verses cited but not applied, and the remainder is merely the opinion of men.

    Who cares?

    [ November 21, 2001: Message edited by: Ransom ]
     
  3. redwhitenblue

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    gotta agree with ransom here...nothing but mere opinion and no real fact. plus, if I had been asked the question on the bottom of the page I know what my answer would have been, CCM is holier would have been my answer because the music of hymns always got on my nerves and I couldn't stand it....sorry but that's how I felt.

    karen
     
  4. Aaron

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    Ransom,

    If I said, "The sky is blue," you would argue that it is just my opinion and demand that I present a Bible verse to prove that the sky is blue. :rolleyes:
     
  5. Brother Adam

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron:
    Ransom,

    If I said, "The sky is blue," you would argue that it is just my opinion and demand that I present a Bible verse to prove that the sky is blue. :rolleyes:
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    LoL- here is the problem Aaron- the sky isn't blue! Actually the sky contains no color (well i suppose we could argue smog, but that is another story).

    UNP, Adam
     
  6. Ransom

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    Aaron:

    If I said, "The sky is blue," you would argue that it is just my opinion and demand that I present a Bible verse to prove that the sky is blue.

    Or, I could go outside and verify that the sky is blue.

    In this case, I cannot verify that "CCM causes our youth to compromise." Therefore, more rigorous evidence than your personal opinion (or that of some columnist) is needed.
     
  7. Aaron

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:


    LoL- here is the problem Aaron- the sky isn't blue! Actually the sky contains no color (well i suppose we could argue smog, but that is another story).

    UNP, Adam
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Adam,

    Though mostly in jest, your rebuttal illustrates the reasoning behind most of the arguments in favor of CCM.

    The blue sky we see is more than merely the sum of its parts. The blueness is the result of the refraction of light in our atmosphere under certain conditions which prevail most of the time. But because you know that none of the individual elements in a blue sky are blue, you argue that the sky isn't blue, though only in jest.

    But that is a form of reasoning taken very seriously by CCM proponents:

    Guitars are not sensual.
    Drums are not sensual.
    Therefore CCM is not sensual.

    But CCM (indeed, all music) is more than the sum of its parts. There is intelligence and purpose behind its composition, and what the music communicates is either good or evil, carnal or spiritual.
     
  8. Aaron

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ransom:
    Aaron:

    If I said, "The sky is blue," you would argue that it is just my opinion and demand that I present a Bible verse to prove that the sky is blue.

    Or, I could go outside and verify that the sky is blue.

    In this case, I cannot verify that "CCM causes our youth to compromise." Therefore, more rigorous evidence than your personal opinion (or that of some columnist) is needed.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Actually you would say, "Who says that is 'blue'? That's just the opinion of men. There is nothing in the Bible that says the color we are seeing there is blue." :D ;)
     
  9. Brother Adam

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    Isn't this why we decided a while back Aaron that we need to take each group and song as an induvidual case? You can't just lump everything under CCM as evil. And then its only a matter of opinion as far as what we decide is CCM and what is not.

    Think back to the sky: You have good ozone and bad ozone. It all depends as to where in the sky it is located. Likewise in CCM there is good music and bad music [​IMG]

    UNP, Adam
     
  10. Ransom

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    Aaron said:

    Actually you would say

    I would say what I have said, and I will thank you not to treat me like one of those scientific articles you keep citing by putting words in my mouth.
     
  11. Mike McK

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    Aaron,

    Alright, already! We get it. We understand that you don't like contemporary music.

    How does this article demonstrate that "CCM causes our youth to compromise"?

    The article makes it clear that they're against CCM because rock beats are "sensual" but, like your posts before, can't tell us which beats are bad or why and they seem to assume that everyone is affected in the same way that they are. Are we just supposed to take their word for it?

    To me, it seems like the anti-contemporary music people are using the old Mormon tactic of, "It must be true, my testimony says so".

    What do you do if the answer to their question at the bottom of the page is "neither"?

    That was my answer. Neither one makes me "feel" holy. If I do ever start to "feel" holy, I should probably worry and if I ever have to rely on music to make me "holy" then it's definitely time to worry.

    I will say that there are CCM songs that God uses to touch me and to speak to me just as there are hymns that God uses to speak to me. There are even (gasp!) mainstream songs that He uses.
     
  12. Eric B

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>We can begin to test and discern music by answering these questions: Am I responding to the melody or to an additional drum beat? If I were to move to this music, how is my body wanting to respond--with a toe-tap to the melody (think of traditional folk-dancing, where the torso is kept still), or a sensually suggestive movement (hip-swaying or shoulder shimmy, etc.) to the drum beat?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    As I do not even dance, I actually toe tap, or hand tap to the drum beat, and sometimes the vocal melody (it does not make me move my hips or torso). So this shows us the ignorant overgeneralization and deceit of these teachings. According to the other page, this would be because I am "deadened" to the influence of the music. But if in this case "deadened" means that I am not even influenced sensually at all, then that is all God requires. In favct, you can think of it as "dead to sin" as the Bible commands.
    This just shows that more than just a beat is the issue. It's about a mindset. I listen to jazzy or rockish music intellectually the same way classical/traditional fans listen to their music, with minimal bodily reaction. But others who are into dance have to watch out how they are moving, and classical (waltz, etc) can also be corrupted into sensuality. (f by nothing more than its romantic sentiment).
     
  13. Mike McK

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    Eric, I do dance.

    I dance like a spastic, uncoordinated, out-of-control white guy, but I dance. :cool:

    Mike
     
  14. Kiffin

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    The article states,

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If your youth listens to CCM, give them this test: Have them first listen to their CCM. Then, have them listen to traditional hymns. Ask them, "Which music made you feel more spiritual, more holy?"

    The answer should not be surprising.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    It might be they find a CCM song making them feel more holy [​IMG] The article is nothing but opinion and I thought Baptists believed in "sola scriptura".
     
  15. AdoptedDaughter

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    Isn't it kind of scarey when we have to rely on feelings?
    Why should we have music make us feel holy? If a believer is in a not so good mood, there is a good chance that nither the hymn nor the CCM will make him feel holy, does that mean that a hymn is making you compromise your faith.

    Relying on feelings scares me very much.
    Mark Lowry has a story about an alarm clock faith. He pretty much says that we aren't going to feel saved all the time, and if we rely on our feelings then half the time we are going to be saved and the other we will not be saved.

    I have yet to see one example as to how CCM compromises youth.

    I listen to CCM, so does that mean that I have compromised? Even better, I sing CCM music, does that mean that I compromise other people?

    The answer is no. How can I compromise antoher person if I am not that person? We are all given an ability to make choices. If I compromise, then I am the one that made mecompromise... no one else.

    CCM cannot make anyone compromise. CCM is a means of giving glory to God outside of the Sunday hymns.

    When you say that CCM compromises the youth, are you saying that Michael W. Smith compromises the youth. Michael W. Smith is a very godly man who, as seen though his songs and concerts, gives all glory to God and uses the gift (CCM) that God has given him to glorify our Creator.

    CCM is a gift from God. IF we say that CCM makes our youth compromise, then we are saying that God is making the youth compromise.
    Let's not judge the intent of the heart. Judging the intent of the heart is the worst thing anyone could do.

    Just a few things to think about.

    In Christ's gracious love,
    Teresa
     
  16. Brett Valentine

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    Heyeverybody, I'm new here.

    Can I add something?

    You know, I've gone back and forth and round and round on this for years. While I have no problem with most musical styles (I'm not really a rap or a techno guy), I do see the point that music is a very powerful medium and it can be used to create certain emotional moods.

    Rhythms are infectious and can get "under your skin," and make you move. I don't see that as a bad thing, but I don't deny it either.

    Now, for a significant group of people, this stuff leads to certain associations with sinful things and states of mind. For those people, this is absolutely right. It leads to sin, and they are right not to go down that path. I LOVE that kind of on fire conviction. Lord, give us more of it! They are practicing good theology in using biblical principles to determine these standards for themselves.

    Okay, I've made one group happy and the other mad. Now, let's see if I can get both groups angry with me. . . ;)

    The other side of the coin is that others are not wired this way. For them, the everyday musical culture is defined by a certain style of music and they are comfortable with that ahd do not associate it with sin.

    What they grew up listening to. For ALL of us, our musical culture is defined by when we were born. We live on an ever moving time line, and the music created today is different from that created 50, 100, 200 years ago. That's really the only absolute statement you can make about the music.

    I am convinced in this now. I went through 1 Corinthians ch. 8 and that principle about meat sacrificed to idols does seem to apply to this as well. If I don't associate the music with sinful practices, for me, it's not sin. It might not be appropriate, but it is not sin. Does a brother or sister have a problem with it? Then I won't do it in their presence, or I will make it clear tht this is what I am doing so that they will be able to make the decision not to listen or support that music.

    The problem is it's not so simple as just throwing out the pop music. There are legitimate groups that have problems with just about every style of music. It becomes the listener's responsibility to make discerning choices in areas of conscience.

    There are hymns that speak to me and give me peace and inspire me. There are also some that do absolutely nothing for me. I can say the same thing for CCM. And the thing is, beat doesn't come into the equation for me.

    Listen to some acappella arrangements of the Fairfield 4 and you'll hear enough rhythm and syncopation to make up for the missing band. . .

    Just my 2 cents. . .
    Brett
     
  17. Ransom

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    Kiffin said:

    It might be they find a CCM song making them feel more holy [​IMG]

    I think if Aaron (or his articles) are going to rely on questions like "What makes you feel more holy?" then it is incumbent upon him (or them) to describe, as specifically and clinically as possible, what a "holy feeling" is so that we know for certain that we have one and it isn't just our flesh.

    [ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: Ransom ]
     
  18. Saint Someone

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    [QUOTE

    I think if Aaron (or his articles) are going to rely on questions like "What makes you feel more holy?" then it is incumbent upon him (or them) to describe, as specifically and clinically as possible, what a "holy feeling" is so that we know for certain that we have one and it isn't just our flesh.

    [/QUOTE]

    Smart Aleck. :D That was funny. Wish I had said it.
     

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