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Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by bb_baptist, Nov 20, 2002.
Interesting, so much for those who believe they are a peaceful religion. NOT!
In a similar vein, I read an article (click here) at David Horowitz's site (click here) about Islam's record concerning slavery. Not only is slavery alive and well in Muslim countries to this day, but Mohammed himself was a slave owner. Funny how those who condemn several of the USA's Founding Fathers for being slave owners and demand reparations from America for slavery that was abolished a century and a half ago seem to have no problem with Islam and Mohammed. The reason is simple, of course. To such people white Christians can do no right, and Muslims can do no wrong.
Islam is, indeed, a religion of peace. However, they define 'peace' the same way communists do: the calm that occurs after all who oppose what you believe have either been converted or killed (and at least for Christians and Jews there seems to be a distinct preference for the latter).
[ November 20, 2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Walguy ]
With regard to polygamy, Muhammad did not introduce this practice, as is often stated. Indeed, in the OT, King Solomon is said to have had 700 wives and 300 concubines (1 Kings 11:3)
In Arabia and all the surrounding countries a system of temporary marriages, marriages of convenience, and unrestricted concubinage was prevalent: this, together with polygamy, had most disastrous effects on the entire moral and social structure.
Muhammad married Khadija at the age of 25, and he took no other wife during their married life. After her death, he married Aisha (who was presented to him, and whom he apparently did not take as a wife until thre years after being presented to him by her father). After this marriage, he took other wives, all but one of whom were old maids or widows left destitute and without protection during the repeated wars of persecution. The only young person he took as a wife during this time was Maria the Copt, who was presented to him as a captive of war, and whom he immediately liberated, but she refused to leave his protection, and he therefore married her.
Don't get me wrong, I find polygamy morally reprehensible, but it should be put into the perspective of the time and region, as was with Solomon.
As far as slavery, it's wrong if Muslims do it, and it is wrong if Christians do it. Proponents in the past have cited biblical verses that support slavery for the Christian, and cite that Jesus never spoke against the practice. While technically true, I don't believe that the biblical verses that either support slavery, or are ambiguous to slavery, mean that God condones that practice. Unfortunately, we should probably also look at slavery via the customs of the time rather than today. Condemn the practice, yes, but condemn those who engaged in it in the past, for me the jury is still out on that.
Words that don't claim Muslims are evil or that we should depart them all, time for a moderator to step in and set things right!
The issue of slavery and the Bible is another topic entirely, one I didn't intend to raise here. My point was that some of those today who condemn slavery in the harshest possible terms when they are talking about the long abolished American version, and claim that they are still suffering the effects of it 137 years later, in the next breath give unqualified support to the religion of Islam, which has a much worse history when it comes to slavery and continues to advocate and practice it widely to this day in countries where Muslims rule.
Apparently the fact that Muslims tend to hate Jews, Christians and America makes everything else about them and their religion acceptable to such people and their political allies.
I assume you refer to those living out of the US. I had a neighbor who just returned from a trip to France, who told me the French hate Americans, especially the Christian extremists here. It's discouraging when others hate the US, but it should be equally discouraging when other nations who are prediminantly Christian hate the US.
I'd also presume that the exception to the rule is those Muslims, Christians, Jews, etc, who have come here and become US citizens???
I have lived overseas, both in Europe and in Asia, and while most people in this world DO NOT wake up every morning wishing they were "Americans" and "living in America", relatively very few outside of Moslem dominated countries "hate" the USA. I dealt with hard line communists who don't (and never did) "hate" the USA. I have worked and worshipped with Sub-Saharan Africans - same comment; Southeast Asia - same comment; even Chinese (the "Red" type) military officers - same. I shared a room for a year with a man from Chilie - he didn't profess any "love" for the American way, but neither did he hate us.
My Arab co-workers and fellow students didn't hate the US, but the major promoters of "hate America" propoganda are Moslem leaders - and not all of them by any means.
What does all of this mean? It means that there is a vehement and vitriolic group of Moslem leaders who preach hate - more of them than most other groups in the world - no big surprise.
As for Mohammed, revisionist history still can't change the truth of who he was - a tool of evil.
We should decide what we believe based on public sentiment? Especially French public sentiment? Come now John surely not even you believe this.
They fight amongst themselves, so even if Islam conquered the entire world, peace would still be a foreign concept despite Islam's attempts to twist its meaning.
France is not predominantly Christian. Christians do not outlaw the preaching of the Gospel in the open air.
[ November 21, 2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Dualhunter ]
Just a side note: nearly all of the French I met were quite amiable. I never did run into one I thought disliked Americans. Certainly no one told me they disliked America. In fact one police officer sat down to explain to me why I couldn't park my motorcycle and sleep in the park. People, wherever they are, will respond to you. I found the French folks friendly to this American. (Although I ran into some who wanted to make sure I wasn't German - and some Germans who wanted to make sure I wasn't French )
The Germans are still a bit bitter about that whole Napoleon thing and the French are still bitter about that whole Hitler thing.