Money

Also why we pick and choose laws to live by. I'll take Jesus work on the Cross to justify me. I just hope He don't spank you too hard for bad teaching when you get there CTB.

 

I personally would say that God created beings with free will. Man decided to misuse free will by sinning.

 

Hey all,

As I stated earlier, Now, maybe rich was a stretch, but He wasn't as poor as people make Him out to be. He lived the way did for oursakes. He didn't invest in earthly things, not that He could not have, He chose not to for us.

Again, by choice, not of any other reason.
Mat 8:19-22 And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest. And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head. And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
These people were telling Him that they would follow Him anywhere and everywhere He would go. He knew their hearts and was telling them if they were going to follow Him everywhere, they have no need of anything. I do not see how Christ was telling them how poor He was when they were self righteously saying what they were going to do, on their terms.

Again, He had the money. He had a bag full of money (John 12:6). The Pharisees came to Him and asked about tribute money and Christ said "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Mat 22:21). He was not going to give His Father's money to Caesar.

I do not agree. The scripture says Mark 15:43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
His tomb was not donated, but rather His body was desired.

This is not talking about wealth (Money). If it is then lets be consistent. It would mean that He was rich (Money) but for oursakes became poor (Money), so that through His poverty (Money), you might become rich (Money). We know that is not what the scripture is telling us. Here is the way I view this scripture. He left His home in glory (Rich), for oursakes He put on this earthly flesh (Poor), so that what He was to accomplish here (While on earth), so we could gain heaven (Rich).
I feel this is more consistent with Paul's teachings.

Again, excuse me for using the word "Rich". I did not mean it the way we use the term today. Christ's natural parents were of the blood line of King David and He could have naturally had things if He desired them.
My point is simply this, Christ taught us not to value money or the things money can do for us. He lived a "Poor" lifestyle, not because He had no money, but because He didn't value it or what it could do.
While here on this earth He had a "Natural net worth" of zero. I don't think He went around teaching and performing miracles with His hand out expecting donations either. His instructions were to sell what you have and give it to the poor, not finance His lifestyle (Like many do today).
He lived the way He did by choice, for us. He could have lived anyway He chose.

How many times have we seen people live in a shack, wear old clothes, maybe not even have electricity or a car to drive. We automatically assume they are dirt poor. Only to find out later in life they had plenty of money. They chose to live that way. They could have had nice things.
When I read the Bible, this is what it teaches me. Then I realize how wastefull I am with what I have. It causes me to examine the way I am with what God blesses me with.
I don't feel this is anything to get in an uproar about. He definately lived a natuarlly poor life. But from what I find, He did it all by choice. In my eyes, this brings greater glory to God. To not have money and live a poor lifestyle is one thing, but to have money and live the way He did (For oursakes, not His own) is something else.
Anyway, just my thoughts from what I find in scripture.

 

OUtsider,

Your explanation would indicate to me that we are not as far apart on this issue as I first though.

As another poster said, the heresy of "prosperity theology" often claims erroneously that Jesus was loaded. For that reason, many of us get concerned when we think someone is headed in that direction.

:thumbs:

Thanks for the 'splainin' you did.

 

rbell,
Thanks for the kind words.
I do not believe in the "Prosperity theology" at all.
If God has blessed us with money, we should freely give it to those who are in need.
Where I preach, we do not believe in paying a preacher. I do it because God called me to do it. What He gives me, I freely give it.

 

Well then, I would HATE to see you violate your conscience.

When them thar "bad bad churches" try and pay you, I humbly offer my services...simply to keep your conscience clear. raying: :saint:


My mailing address is...

 

If Jesus was rich when He was on earth...where did He get His money?

His father was a carpenter and Jesus also plied that trade until His ministry began. I don't imagine the family brought in all that much as carpenters.

He had to get a coin out of a fishes mouth to pay His taxes. If He was rich, why didn't he just reach into His pocket?

 

I'll keep that in mind :smilewinkgrin:

the wise men gave Him gifts of Gold, Frankincense and Myrrh (Mat 2:11).
Christ's natural parents were of the blood line of King David and carpenters may have been a profitable trade (Not sure but is a good trade today).

From my earlier post: He had the money. He had a bag full of money (John 12:6). The Pharisees came to Him and asked about tribute money and Christ said "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's." (Mat 22:21). He was not going to give His Father's money to Caesar.

Again, I apologize for the word "Rich". Just saying He lived a "Poor lifestyle" for oursakes. He chose to live the way He did. Money wasn't important to Him and it shouldn't be important to us.

 

Why would He need a bunch of money, when He could just get it out of a fish............:thumbs:

BBob,

 

My people, the PB's, do not believe in a salaried ministry, either.
But, you know, that backfires, too, brother.
Heard of this ole' time preacher who would drive hundreds of miles to preach in his model T.
Well, one day he was called to preach at a brother's funeral.
The brother had no family of his own.
So, neighbors prepped him and laid him down, and some of the brethren were there.
Now, mind you, in those days, as now, some members of the Primitive Baptist church lived miles and miles from where they meet, so not all of the departed brother's fellow church members were there.
Their minister was there, and it so happened he preached before the invited preacher, and touched on money, and how those who were called to preach ought to preach for the joy of the word, and because "freely ye have received, freely give".
The invited preacher went home paying his gas to and fro out of his own pocket.

 

They all sold what they had and lived in communion with each other. That's where the bag of money came from. They were poor though. Whether Mary and Joseph came from the line of David makes no difference. They gave the "poor" offering to God for the baby Jesus. He was rich in that He was in Heaven with His Father. When He came to Earth He was poor. Yes, He chose to be, by leaving His home with the father. The WHOLE time on the Earth he was poor. BTW, even later when Pual was taking up the offering that was to be "layed aside until he came", that was to go to those same poor saints in Jerusalem that were left after Jesus' death.

 

This statement is exactly the problem. Do you know how much money is "enough"?


answer: "Just a little bit more."

It's never enough. That's the problem.

 

That's a bit too simplistic, IMO.

There is a fundamental difference in a person wanting to have a little more money so the rent payments won't be late and so the family can have food this week and a person who wants a little more money to afford a Hummer.

 

There are entry level foot soldier privates in the Army who are self made millionaires, and there are people making 6 digits a year who are living paycheck to paycheck. Why is that?

Most of the people wanting to be blessed "a little bit more" actually already has plenty of blessings to begin with, they're just misusing and wasting them.

 

Using extreme examples doesn't negate normal circumstances. The vast majority of soldiers are not millionaires. I will give you second one. It seems to be true mostly because greater income often leads to greater spending.

But honestly, is there anything wrong with a person who makes 20,000 a year wishing that he made 30,000? That's not asking to be rich, but it enables you to take care of a family better.

 

You're the one that started that, comparing going hungry to having a Hummer. Most cases aren't like this, most are middle class families.

Where does it stop? Is there anything wrong with a person who makes $50,000 a year to wish he made $60,000? After all, that's not asking to be rich, but it enables them to take care of a family better. It doesn't stop until you're completely financially independent.

 

I don't think it's wise to have a bright line of demarcation. At what point does it become faith in money instead of faith in God? That's different for most people.

This is a personal issue for me. My family just moved to seminary, and I don't yet have a job (I'm up for a church vote tomorrow, though ). We've been struggling financially, and we've prayed for God to bless us with resources. It's not a matter of wanting more just to have more. We simply want to be able to meet our obligations and to feed ourselves (including my infant son).

 

Then deliver pizzas part time for awhile. Are you actively trying to do something like this, or are you praying for gifts?

 

I am up for a church vote tomorrow. I've had inquiries from several different churches. I've withdrawn from consideration in the other cases because I did not feel led in that direction. I'm not praying for gifts. We have some savings that we are using to get by until God opens a door for us. My wife is working in a day care that doesn't have an opening for our son, so I have to watch him when she is at work. If we put him in child care elsewhere, it would consume her entire check (day care is expensive around here).

I simply see no reason to take a job that I would have to quit within a couple weeks (not enough time to be a full-time student, minister, and take a third job--especially considering that almost every part-time job around here except Chick-fil-a requires working on Sundays). I see no reason to bring reproach upon the cause of Christ for a a few bucks that wouldn't make much difference in the long run.

My point is this. I see no problem asking for God to provide a way to pay my bills long-term. I'm not asking for money in the mail (I'd sure take it, though!), but I'd like to have a place of service doing what I believe God has called me to do. I came to seminary because I felt God wanted me to continue my education (I have a BA in ministry). I had a full-time job before I came here. If I were just looking for money, I would have never come to seminary. I figure that it's not wrong for me to ask for God to provide a way for me to remain here. A part-time job delivering pizzas or working in fast food won't be enough to meet basic expenses long-term (rent, utilities, gas money, food, etc.).

For the past week I've been filling in doing lessons for the church in which I've been nominated for the vote, and they are providing some income for me for this work.