Morally Speaking: Should Politicians Spend 90 Days Living on Minimum Wage?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, Feb 20, 2013.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    138
    In Obama's SOTU, he was both passionate and empathetic regarding the need to raise the minimum wage to $9.00 an hour. While this is admirable on his behalf, just how realistic would $9.00 an hour be for those in low end jobs, let alone for those in DC recommending such wages increase?

    For example, with the price of gas at its current levels [in California] that nine dollars would represent maybe 2 gallons of gas; or two Whopper specials [two single patty Whoppers, small fry and small drink]; or even worse, two gallons of milk for the family to soak their cereal in at breakfast.

    Nine dollars an hour will do little to keep up with rental hikes, increases in utilities [that are increasing to keep up with the cost to pay overheads], groceries. When you think about just the cost of groceries, one must remember that the increases passed on to the consumer are necessary because those who grow, produce, package, distribute and deliver groceries to stores [who have employees and benefits to pay too] have ever increasing overheads to meet as well. And those overheads mean higher costs being passed on to the consumer, who have no choice but to pay the asking cost in order to feed their families.

    With that said. I'd love to challenge each politician, and the President himself, to live for no less than 90 days on the same minimum wage, they expect most Americans to live on [and be ever grateful to them for initiating on their behalf]. How long could they honestly live on the same minimum wage that they expect others to live on, and do it without incurring the hardships these minimum wage earners face day after day?

    Years ago, when I was a job developer for the State of California Department of Vocational Rehabiliatation, I was embarrassed to have to secure jobs for disabled employees at minimum wage, because even though I could obtain child care and some other benefits to help them meet additional needs; I knew it would take at least four to five times as much as the minimum wage for them to live a descent life. It was actually financially advantageous for these folks to remain on SSDI, SSI, or welfare then to return to work.

    I trust that things are not much different today. So before the leaders of this nation decide to vote on $9.00 an hour for minimum wage, let them first try to live on that wage and to sustain some semblance of life on that wage before they begin to pat themselves on the back and say well done, we've helped these folks move higher up on the ladder of earning.

    It would take at least, $24.00 an hour for a family of four to make a living that keeps them above the poverty line, and capable of meeting the little emergencies and extra needs that life brings their way [i.e., car repairs, sickness, new clothes, club dues for children, having any kind of decent hobby or pastime, a family vacation]. Nine dollars an hour will not go far if a person wants to visit Disneyland this year. Disney announced that their gate ticket is $125.00 per person this year. If a wage earner and his spouse headed to Disneyland for the day [assumng they left their two toddlers with a family member to avoid babysitting costs of around four dollars an hour] at the park, once they paid for gas to get them there, parking, admission, food and a souvenir, they may blow more than weeks pay for a day of fun, and they'd still have to live the remainder of the month on what is left over on three weeks of minimum wage pay to pay for rent, utilities, food, gas [to get to and from work] and any unexpected emergencies that almost always arise in life.

    There are no politians, who could live at that end of the pay scale for week, let alone 90 days, without realizing the American worker is still underpaid.

    I believe that those who lead our nation are living in a Nirvana like bubble, drinking funky koolaid, and not in touch with reality. If they were, Obamacare, amnesty, gay rights/marriage, and wars would go to the back of the line, and the life-style of the American worker would take precedence over these other issues, and we'd see America getting back on the track to being a nation with a solid middle class, able to pay its bills, and not so dependent on China for loans that will take a century to repay.
     
    #1 righteousdude2, Feb 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2013
  2. InTheLight

    InTheLight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2010
    Messages:
    16,249
    Likes Received:
    619
    Your hypothetical situation is silly--no one should expect to raise a family on minimum wage, even if it was increased to $9.00.

    Minimum wage jobs are entry level jobs, period, end of story.
     
  3. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    138
    Maybe....

    ....but there are folks trying to do just that. I know a great many families [both husband and wife work] making minimum wage and tring to raise a family.

    When I did job development, it was almost always for folks who had families of some sort.

    Silly....not really: It is reality for too many Americans!
     
  4. Salty

    Salty
    Expand Collapse
    20,000 Posts Club
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    22,127
    Likes Received:
    221
    RD-
    Would you have me come to your house and pay me $9 an hour to dry your dishes (you wash) or some other menial task?

    You would prob ally say NO- because that job is not worth $9 an hour.
    Many jobs are not worth $9 an hour -
    Just as ITL stated they are entry level jobs. You desire more money - find a job with more responsibility.

    Also keep in mind
    1) under the 10th amendment - the Feds have no business passing a "minimum wage"
    2) The cost of living varies thurout the United States - even more the reason the State or local govt should be the authority in a minimum wage.
    3) Bottom line, it should be up to an employer what he decides to pay - (of course minimum wage would mean minimum notice when quitting) A good employer will pay a good employee enough to stay at his company.
     
  5. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,158
    Likes Received:
    322
    An extra: I went to one of the sites (State of MA) in which one can calculate food stamp allowance.

    A family of 4 at 9/hr qualifies for about 200/mo in food stamps with "assistance" for utilities (unknown amount).

    After ObamaCare kicks in there would be no medical expenses of course.

    HankD
     
  6. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    RD, if politicians had to live at minimum wage for an hour they would explode and leave a huge mess for the rest of us to clean up. ;)
     
  7. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0
    The minimum wage is the creation of men who don't understand economics, the free market, or capitalism. The value of a job is determined by the value it creates. Forcing private industries to pay more for work than it is worth has a vast negative impact on the national economy. It is a Marxist invention which, like the progressive income tax, is being used to successfully destroy the private sector free market economy. This may not sound "compassionate", but no one deserves to make more money than their abilities & work ethic will provide.
     
    #7 michael-acts17:11, Feb 25, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 25, 2013
  8. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2007
    Messages:
    10,466
    Likes Received:
    138
    I Don't Disagree with that....

    ...I do stand with others and you, who believe that some jobs are not worth the same [hourly] as others. However, I am just stating that if there is a minimum wage, it should be adequate to meet the basic needs of those doing those unheralded jobs. Usually jobs no one else would think of doing in their worst day of life.

    DC just wants to be able to slap each other on their backs and have a feel-good moment [like a Joel Osteen sermon] over making sure ALL Americans are making a decent living wage.

    I say $9.00 an hour is not a decent living wage considering the ever increasing cost of living going on around us. There should be a basic entry level wage, instead of a minimum wage. This wage is the amount that everyone, regardless of the job will be assured at hiring. Of course more difficult, task oriented jobs requiring more responsibility or academic background and training should undoubtedly pay more. That stands to reason, Salty!:smilewinkgrin:

    I just don't believe that regardless of how unimportant the job or the level of skill needed to do the job should be nine dollars an hour. No one in America can pay their way on that paltry bit of money.

    Even the automakers $30 or $40 dollars an hour to push a broom and sweep the floors.
     
  9. HAMel

    HAMel
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    83
    Raising the wage to nine bucks an hour is merely a way to generate more tax money.
     
  10. Monster

    Monster
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2012
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    0
    Part of this won't be popular;

    How about determining the politician's wages, based upon the average household/individual income of their perspective constituents.

    And the not popular bit;

    Do the same for Pastors. Determine their salaries, based upon the average of their congregations. /me ducks and runs for cover.

    And then how about limiting budgets in much the same manner?:praying:
     
  11. MB

    MB
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,554
    Likes Received:
    13
    Hi Righteousdude;
    In my opinion they should not receive more than what they would make in a right to work state. The right to work law allows people to work for less than minimum wage. Some of them only making 5.00 per hr.
    MB
     
  12. michael-acts17:11

    michael-acts17:11
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2010
    Messages:
    857
    Likes Received:
    0
    "Basic entry level wage" is just another way of saying "minimum wage". It's still a counterproductive & subjective idea. When you claim that the minimum wage should be $9.00, you have made the judgement that all jobs & all employees are worth $9.00/hr. This is a socialistic idea which has no place in a free society. The markets should decide the value of work & the worker.

    It is not my responsibility, as a business owner, to pay an employee what he/she thinks he/she is worth. Every job has a set value based on the value of the work being performed & the competence of the worker.

    Ask yourself this. If I pay an employee $8/hr for a job that nets me .50/hr & requires little skill, why should I pay more than the job produces just because you & politicians think I should? If a person wants to earn more than they & the job are worth, then he/she should apply a stronger work ethic & improve his/her skills to perform more valuable labor. Based on your position, I'd say you've bought into socialist thinking without an understanding of how socialism & free markets actually work.
     
  13. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0

    Well said. :applause::applause:

    First, IMO, the federal government wasn't designed by our founders to provide FOR the people. It was designed to protect the people from attacks from outside our borders. It was designed to be a mediator with regards to certain activities between states. It was designed to have miniminal impact on "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (originally property). It was designed to obtain operating expense monies from sources other than the citizen's pockets.

    Next, I don't remember any Bible references to a governmental "minimum wage". Please correct me if one does exist. I do remember that producers of crops shouldn't strip their fields clean. There should be gleenings left for those in need. IMO, the government has taken the portion that should have been left for the poor. Through progressive income taxes, minimum wage laws, support of unions and their demands to gleen every shaft of wheat and ear of corn that fell during harvest.

    I don't ever remember my father asking anyone how much money they needed to maintain their "standard of living"? When harvest time came, he said something along these lines. I need workers to help with my harvest. I'm paying this rate. The harvest starts Monday. Would you like to work?

    He paid the going rate, in our community, for the crop being harvested. As a child, I remember the yard being full of cars, as people did come to earn a day's pay. The community knew he was a fair man who didn't try to cheat as some did within our community.

    Also watched the change, especially during the mid 60's to mid 70's or so. As more began to believe they were "entitled" the fewer came to help with the harvest. He hadn't changed. They changed. The more welfare benefits increased, the fewer came to work. The more minimum wage increased, the more the "entitled" expected my father to maintain or better their standard of living. At his expense.

    I grew up on that farm, living well below what most consider to be the poverty level. Ate many meals equivalent to beans and rice, because that was all my parents could put on the table. In the later years, my father had to take a night watchman job to supplement the meager income that remained from working his crops during the day. All of his expense kept rising, including labor, at a rate that exceeded the rise in price at the marketplace.

    My parents died in poverty. To my knowledge, they never took a cent of welfare. They believed that a man earns his living by the sweat of his brow. They did not believe that they were "entitled" to anything that was robbed from others and given to them. And, they taught me an important life lesson.

    Help those less fortunate. Saw that happen many times. Saw their ability to help others decline over the years. One of the main reasons was because of the government's role in growing an ever increasing "entitled" society. What they would have gladly given to others IN NEED was taken from them to "redistribute the wealth" to those "entitled".
     

Share This Page

Loading...