More Chinese Bibles?

ADDED? somehow, i knew u'd say that!

but wldn't u agree, if the roles were reversed, that KJBOs wld be jumping up n down over MVs "deleting" Jesus' Lordship, Mediatorship, n Messiahship?

in fact, if KJBO modus operandi were pushed further, we might say the PERversion deleted Jesus, his role, his person, n even his name altogether!

i guess my question is: shd we expect even-handed treatment in examining Bible versions?

true; unfortunately, in some Bibles His name n role are simply deleted (even in the English!). how come Rev 22 doesn't apply in those cases?

 

Well, i pondered one night. And here's my reply. I guess the question has to do with the point of ref. What is the standard? Since i take the TR based KJV as the standard, any bits that are excluded or included from this standard would be examined as such, and some would be labeled perversions of the standard.

Since you don't have this standard, there would just be "different renderings" i suppose? "additions" in some versions would be "subtractions" in other versions. It will NEVER end. groan....
By what means do you think God can and will apply His curse in Rev 22 if there was no standard? What's your take?

Revelation 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

Su Wei: //Since i take the TR based KJV as the standard, ... //

Which TR? Which KJV?
Remember there are multiple Received Texts
and multiple KJVs.

 

thank you bro Ed, you push me to more study. :thumbsup:

But i'll be waiting for FSIN for the reply.

 

Thx, Su Wei. ur candidness is much apprec'd! that's right--the key question is, what's the standard?

there are a couple ways to approach this. first, historically, was there ever a time where there was NO standard? e.g. before Erasmus or Scrivener lived, or ere King James IV of Scotland ascended the English throne? (remember, Ps 119:89, FSIH). what standard did Apostle John have in Rev 22--how come he's so certain when:

1. there was NO KJB or TR
2. he and Paul and Christ quoted fr various versions of the Bible (not only the "Masoretic"/"Bomberg" OT but also LXX, etc.)

theologically, is there any special reason why the KJB is chosen as the standard by which other translators stand or fall? i wld be esp interested in "BCV" (Book-Chapter-Verse).

textually, the TR doesn't have a more impressive pedigree than either the Critical Text (which looks at ALL the texts) or the Majority Text (fr which TR deviates on many occasions). it is one of several attempts in history to get at what's most likely the original text out of a plethora of extant MSS, an endeavour known as textual criticism.

practically, which edition of the KJB or TR is the standard? remember, in the face of Rev 22, it won't do by saying, o, they're all roughly similar, w only minor differences. all it takes is ONE additional word, or missing word, to create a different standard. one KJBO, D.A. Waite, is on record as counting no fewer than 136 "Substantive" differences betw the 1611 n the 1769 (i.e. excluding minor typos, spelling changes, etc.).

is the idea of an eternal, monolithic TR/KJB "standard" a proven fact or a myth?

i don't have this standard, that's right, but don't feel to deprived, given that most Christians in history don't either. besides, what if the standard were an arbitrary one rather than a divinely authorised one?

my concern is that there may be a manmade desire for something more tangible or "certain" than the one God provided. this has shown itself in various religions over human history, n more recently in Charismatic n Romish circles, where one has to have a crucifix or rosary to be "in touch" w something God gave some time back but isn't v tangible, or fake "signs n wonders" to strengthen one's faith in the invisible. so is hyperveneration of the KJB/TR--for fear of having no standard.

but we see none of that in the Lord's example. yes, MSS n versions in those days had many variants, yet we don't see Him going beyond the affirmation of the canon (Luke 24--TaNaKh). we don't see Jesus holding up a scroll n saying, "all the other copies or translations r bunk, PERversions--this is it, the Nazareth Text! here it is!"

so how will God implement Rev 22? hmm, i'm afraid i don't know for sure. He doesn't seem too worked up over the variant wordings in the NT's quotation of the OT, that's for sure. yet there were definitely warnings against those who "wrest" God's Word "to their own destruction" (2Pet 3:16). perhaps it applies to those who twist God's Word to make it fit their agenda (whether it's KJBOism, liberalism, the cults, etc.). what's certain is that He will take appropriate action, n we don't need to invent a standard to help Him out.

interestingly, KJB follows the Minority Text (the TR) here (words in bold):

TR: και εαν τις αφαιρη απο των λογων βιβλου της προφητειας ταυτης αφαιρησει ο θεος το μερος αυτου απο βιβλου της ζωης και εκ της πολεως της αγιας και των γεγραμμενων εν βιβλιω τουτω

Majority Text: και εαν τις αφελη απο των λογων του βιβλιου της προφητειας ταυτης αφελοι ο θεος το μερος αυτου απο του ξυλου της ζωης και εκ της πολεως της αγιας των γεγραμμενων εν τω βιβλιω τουτω
​

either way, Book of Life or Tree of Life, the warning is clear not to mess w God's Word.

in perhaps an ironic way, the Bible that i believe (existing in imperfect materials yet infallibly kept in heaven n across thousands of written witnesses but sans the uber certainty of the idol created by TR/KJB-onlyist theorists) is the same one that was "good enuff" for Paul n Peter n the Body of Christ throughout the ages! n if it was good enuff for them, it's good enuff for me! :thumbs: