Mormans...Are there any?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by ONENESS, May 28, 2003.

  1. ONENESS

    ONENESS
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    Just curious to know if any members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints are among the crowd here at B.B.

    Let me know if you are I have a question I want to ask.

    God bless
    Brian
     
  2. Mike McK

    Mike McK
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    I know there are some here because I've talked to them.

    There was a Mormon here a while back and we had a great thread. He was one of the better Mormons I've met. Eventually, it died and he diappeared.

    I tried to talk to a couple of Mormons on another board (which I've since left) and they were among the rudest people I've ever met.

    They didn't have a clue what their own church taught and any time you tried to confront them with scripture or LDS history, they'd always counter with "but I have a testimony" and tell me to pray to God to reveal to me that Mormonism was true.

    If you didn't give in, they started calling you names and getting really beligerant with you.

    Honestly, there are some Mormons who are great folks but there are some who are like talking to a wall.

    I was disappointed because the Mormons I've met here on BaptistBoard and in real life were great people.
     
  3. Singer

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    They didn't have a clue what their own church taught and any time you tried to confront them with scripture or LDS history, they'd always counter with "but
    I have a testimony" and tell me to pray to God to reveal to me tha
    t Mormonism was true.

    If you didn't give in, they started calling you names and getting really beligerant with you.


    Hey Mike, I thought you were surely talking about Catholics there [​IMG] )

    I've got a Mormon son in law (unpracticing) living down the road a mile
    but I wouldn't subject him to this.
     
  4. Mike McK

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    No, it's true. For instance, they had no idea that their church refused to allow blacks to recieve the priesthood. When I showed them several quotes from their own leaders (who, in LDS theology are supposed to be as infallable as the pope), they either said was lying or taking them out of context.

    Throughout the whole thing, I got the feeling they didn't take their faith too seriously. After all, they didn't even know the most basic of their own doctrines and they wouldn't even consider the Bible, even after I showed them Brigham Young's exhortation to test LDS teaching in light of scripture and not to follow that teaching if it didn't line up.

    They asked me what caused me to hate Mormons so and said that Mormons considered themselves Christians and other Christians brothers.

    I showed them several passages of Mormon writings which said that non-LDS Christians aren't Christians at all but are apostate and condemned us.

    Again, they wouldn't believe it.

    I made the mistake of outlining the differences between the Mormon teaching of Christ and the Christian teaching of Christ and showed that they were two different Jesuses and they just went berserk.

    It wasn't just that they didn't care, it was that they were so nasty about it. You think people here can be rude? You ain't seen nothin' yet!

    I finally decided that it's better just to shake the dust off your feet and deal with people who want to know the truth.
     
  5. Lorelei

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    You could delete the word Mormon and replace it with ANY Denomination and this statement would still be true.

    ~Lorelei
     
  6. Chrift

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    Hello Oneness,

    I am x-mormon. If I can help you I will try, but my answer will certainly be biased. [​IMG]

    Mormons can be hard to witness to. Why is this? A few years back there were a couple of movies that came out. An alien hunter from another planet comes to earth to collect trophies. This creature masked itself with a special camouflage that bends light rays around itself so it can blend in with any environment. As the alien runs through the jungle or across a city, the camo adjusts to the surroundings, making the creature invisible. This is a lot like mormon doctrine. It was said earlier that a lot of mormons don't know most of the things their church teaches and that is very true. Tell a mormon that you are a Christian, then ask what they believe. Chances are good it will sound like basic Christian confessions. In fact the growing trend in mormonism is that it is trying to become more like Christianity and mormons may refer to themselves as a Christian Denomination. This was NOT always the case. I remember being taught in the lds church that we were NOT Christians. Joseph Smith's writings stated
    this as well. As mormons have an open canon, their doctrine changes with the times. Mike brought up blacks not being allowed into the priesthood. This was later changed, but originated in the belief was that these people were marked by God as punishment.

    As mormonism continues tries to morph itself into Christianity, it runs problems with early mormon writers, teachers, and prophets (and some not so early). Instead of denouncing these teachings that conflict scripture, they are swept under the rug or labled as "non-cannonal" teachings. Oh, they are still taught [​IMG] .

    Mike, some of the hostility may have came from mormon programming about "persecution". Mormons are taught that when, say you, come to them with THEIR OWN WRITINGS or other evidence against them, they are victims of persecution. They are also programmed to believe this is one of the signs they belong to the true church. What a remarkable self defense theology! Apologetic material proving they are wrong, enforces that they are somehow correct. In their head you are only trying to hurt them, so they storm off muttering; "I don't have to take this".

    You may have heard this before, but anytime you enter a discussion - DEFINE ALL YOUR TERMS! The more in-deph the better. The word "Trinity" is growing support with some mormons so don't assume you believe the same thing because they use this or other Christian language. Sometimes you can witness and have your mormon friend nodding his head the entire time, until you define words. Many times they may not be sure what their church believes and may agree with you to avoid an argument or to prove how Christian they are.

    Mormons are KJVO. I know a lot of Baptists like KJ so use it. Know it well too. Learn the passages mormons like to quote to support their beliefs and understand the real meaning and context.

    Anyway sorry about all the info, but if I can help Oneness let me know.
     
  7. ONENESS

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    Thanks alot for the adivce. I was just wanting to ask them a few questions concerning some of the things in the bible. Mainly about the "Eternal Marriage" thing.

    But anyhow, dont guess there are any around.

    God bless
     
  8. SolaScriptura in 2003

    SolaScriptura in 2003
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    Some Mormon "elders" came to my house a while back. I asked 'em about that one. I pointed out that Jesus said "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Mat 22:30) Their respone was simply "He wasn't refering to celestial marriage. For a marriage to be celestial a certain ceremony has to performed...blah...blah...so Jesus was only refering to regular marriage." All their answers to the questions that I asked were just a bunch of lets see how big a circle we can run around the Word of God. Then, I started pointing out contradictions in the book of Mormon, and they would defend whatever it said. FINALLY, however, they admitted that book of Mormon contradicted itself but said "Oh yeah, the Bible contradicts itself too" and I said "Show me," so they got out their handy-dandy Mormon Guide Book and looked up the section about Bible Contradictions. I asked them if I could see that book and to my surprise they let me peruse it. Anyway, they claimed that Matthew's saying that the priests bought the field and Peter's saying that Judas bought it in Acts was a contradiction, but it's really not, because in a sense they both bought it, with the same money even. In fact, the priests no doubt bought the very field that Judas killed himself in because they felt a tad bit guilty, knowing it was their fault he comitted suicide. The priests bought the field to bury strangers in, and there was Judas' body, their first 'customer.' Besides, when Peter says "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity," (Acts 1:18) the reward of iniquity can be taken as his DEATH rather than the money that the priests bought it with - so Judas bought it by his suicide and they with Judas money. They also pointed out the accounts of Paul's conversion where in one none of the men with him heard a voice and in the other they heard a voice but didn't understand what it said. The explanation there is quite simple: the Greek word used for heard in the expression "they heard no voice" is quite frequently used to mean they didn't understand. I don't remember what else they tried to pull, but I asked them "If you think that the book of Mormon & the Bible each contradict themselves, why not just throw 'em away and say 'Here's what Joseph Smith said'?" That was about the time they decided to leave.
     
  9. Chrift

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    The only Biblical "support" they have for eternal marrage is Matthew 18; "I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

    They brush aside the fact that marriage is not being discussed, sin and forgiveness are. The core of their beliefs on eternal marriage stem from non-biblical text (big surprise).

    Is that what you were looking for? Their scriptural support for eternal marrage?

    [ June 07, 2003, 03:02 AM: Message edited by: Chrift ]
     
  10. Mike McK

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    This is something I ran into. I brought up statements and teachings by various Mormon leaders, including Smith, Young, apostles, prophets, presidents, etc. and each time I was told that their words weren't binding.

    How can you say in one breath that these men are speaking "ex cathedra", on God's behalf, and then, in the next, say that their words aren't binding?

    It's a bit like trying to nail jello to a wall. They say they take the BoM seriously but they'll throw it out the wondow in a second if you point out that it says something they find uncomfortable.

    This is something else I saw there. I thought I was very polite to them (especially in light of the non-Christian abuse they heaped on me) but they saw me as persecuting them and one person did say that that was proof that LDS was the true church.

    Like I said, it reminds me of the Iraqi defense minister boasting victory over "the Americans" even as American tanks could be seen taking Bagdhad in the background. The closer the American troops got, the louder he proclaimed victory.

    The more differences I showed them between Christan doctrine and LDS doctrine, the louder they protested that they were just another Christian denomination.

    Even moreso than that is that they fall back on their "burning in the bosom".

    This is the battle cry of someone who just doesn't want to know the truth. You can't argue with someone who says, "It's true because I believe it".

    Not one Mormon there (and there were five or six)could show me from any Mormon source (BoM, Pearl of Great Price, D&C, etc) why Mormonism was superior to orthodox Christianity. Nor could they demonstrate why orthodox Christianity was apostate.

    I was told over and over to pray to God to reveal to me that these things were true. The thing that struck me about this was that they didn't ask me to pray for God to reveal the truth to me, whatever the truth might be, but that God would reveal their truth to me.

    I showed them several passages from the Bible which tell us to evaluate teaching by checking it with scripture and asked them to show me one that said to evaluate it by praying to recieve a "burning in the bosom". No one could.

    I agree and, usually, that's the firs thing I do.

    I do ask them to define their terms, particularly salvation and savior because, as you know, LDS teaches that there are many saviors and Mormon salvation differs greatly from the Christian doctrine of salvation.
     
  11. Mike McK

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  12. Johnv

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    Hi Crift.

    On behalf of the folks here, I want to thank you for sharing your info about the LDS.

    It is my hope that the LDS will over time begin to drop its beliefs that are biblically contrary, and adopt more mainline Christian beliefs. Some of this has already happenned. Perhaps, over time, they're truly be a Christian denomnation with sound biblical doctrines. This may not happen tomorrow, or a hundred years from now. But it is my hope that it does eventually happen.

    That being said, I find it interesting that Mormon families often live their lives in a more Christlike manner than we mainline Christians do. The abortion rate is lower among mormons, and the rate of people marrying as virgins is higher. Mormon families who are destitute are aided by the church, not the state. Homelessnes in the Mormon community is nearly non-existent. Correct bad doctrine, I'm all for. But applaud appropriate and honorable behavior, this is something we should likewise do.
     
  13. Frank

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    My wife's family are L.D.S. In fact, her father holds the position of patriarch. This means he is empowered by the Holy Spirit to give blessings and predict the future life of one of this fellow saints. My wife, who was converted to Christianity, says L. D. S. doctrine is not even believable to the rational person. Her famous statement is God said "OOPS! I forgot to tell you something until 1830."
    I have had a couple of discussion with her Dad about the B.O.M. and the Bible. However, the problem is establishing authority. L.D.S. do not use the inspired text of scripture for their authority. Therefore, their teachings are subject to change when the spirit reveals the will of God directly to them. Funny, a preacher friend of mine asked a mormon elder if he could get to heaven without the B.O.M. and the young elder replied," yes". The preacher friend of mine retorted, " then why do I need the B.O.M.?" The conversation ended at this point.
     
  14. Major B

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    Here is an offer I've made to cultists of all stripes, including Mormon.

    "Let's have a Bible study, every week until you get tired. But here are the rules:

    1. Only the Bible--none of your other books, none of my "helps," except for an exhaustive concordance and an analytical greek concordance.

    2. We will study the Book of Romans, verse by verse."

    I'm still waiting for my first taker.
     
  15. Chrift

    Chrift
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    Thank you JohnV! [​IMG]

    I understand what you are saying, BUT the good behavior they display is a result of false doctrine. The good is done for personal gain in the afterlife, not simply out of love for God and neighbor. In their eyes Christ did not pay for all sins. The value of the Savior is lessened and they feel they have to finish their atonement themselves. I pray that Christians do realize we are slacking, but our only motive should always and only be love for God and others. Sadly Christians are too often idle and in their defense quick to shout; "Sola Gratia" and; "Sola Fide" and forget Sola Scriptura tells us that; "...in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God--this is your spiritual act of worship." (Romans 12:1)


    OOPS is right! [​IMG]
     
  16. Chrift

    Chrift
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    Here is a chair, you'll problably be waiting for a while longer :D
     
  17. Yelsew

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    Here is a chair, you'll problably be waiting for a while longer :D </font>[/QUOTE]If you are seeking information, I suggest you search for the name Tanner associated with Utah, and Utah lighthouse, and perhaps "anti-mormon". Those searches should provide you with good leads to outstanding documentation relative to Mormons and mormonism.
     
  18. 3AngelsMom

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    My best girl friend in high school was LDS, and she had to have been from one of the most messed up families I have ever been around. We also had some neighbors who were LDS (California is crawling with them), and they had barrels in their garage with grain in them. The girl I was friends with though, their house was so dirty that you couldn't walk through it without stepping on stuff. The neighbors were really clean though, so perhaps it was a fluke.

    Then, the first guy that asked me to marry him was LDS, and I went to church with him once to see what it was like. His parents were pretty involved but he wasn't interested, and at the time I wasn't even saved, so it didn't really matter to me if his family was LDS.

    LET ME TELL YOU! That had to have been the WEIRDEST church service I have ever been to. I don't remember a word the guy said, thankfully, but it was SO boring, and just plain WEIRD.

    I'll have to give them one thing though, they definately have taken the great commision to the extreme.

    Something that we could learn from.

    God Bless,
    Kelly
     
  19. dianetavegia

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    The couple who live next door were Catholic (she) and LDS raised (he). After two years they became Christians and are VERY involved in church!

    They shared with me some of the beliefs of LDS members and it was so off the wall. I think the 'promises' of celestial marriages and rewards remind me of the Muslim religion.

    Diane
     
  20. thessalonian

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    I spent 8 years in Utah, had a Mormon girlfriend for a while and dialogued with the Mormons quite a bit about there faith. You can ask if you would like. I will try to represent them fairly.
     

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