Music

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, May 18, 2011.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel
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    Music is universal. Every culture, every nation, every person has their music.

    Having grown up in the 1950's and early 60's I'm prone to rock and roll music. My parents loved the big band era. Later, came the disco beat, then came the rock music which rolled over to the hard rock scene. Some like the
    country western beat. Others, classical music. Some people like Southern Gospel Music. One form of music I really detest is Rap. This absolutely drives me nuts.

    However.

    Now, let me say that I do hold dear the old Christian Music and fully support any Church that maintains this practice. This doesn't work for many of our youth, does it? I visited a church once where the speakers were bigger than refrigerators. For 45 minutes those folks rocked and rolled all over the place but it was in good taste and each song delivered a Gospel Message about Christ. I only visited this church once but did I object to their style merely because it was different that what I was used to?

    Elvis, Johnny Cash, just to name a couple of singers put Christian lyrics to many of their songs. Was this wrong? Were they sending a Christian message to those in our society that actually like that kind of rhythm? Is that wrong?

    What if Christian youth of today begin to add Christian lyrics to rock music, or Rap music. Would this be wrong? Would we frown upon such and discourage them from attending our Churches? They claim to be Born Again.

    Are we sometimes stuck in the mud?

    Wondering what we can do to bring the youth back into church?

    I don't have the answer but perhaps we need to look at ourselves first before we point the finger at others.

    We are today, the product of how we were raised.

    Our youth are products of how they were raised.
     
  2. tinytim

    tinytim
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    It's going to take more than a style of music to bring back the youth...

    the hypocrisy of the church has got to stop.. that would do wonders.

    I've been thinking aobut this...

    IN the 50s and 60s.. churches were filled with youth.. NOT because of evangelism.. but because of WW2 ending, and soldiers coming home to their wives.. and each family having 5-7 kids a piece..

    It wasn't Evangelism that filled the churches with youth back then.. it was S3X..
    The church patted themselves on the back for having their churches full..

    Built bigger and better church buildings... only to see their children leave in droves.. because it was a societal thing to go to church.. IOWS they didn't go to worship God, but because it was the "RIGHT" thing to do.. it would help business.. if the owner was a Christian... The church became complacent... thinking they would exist forever in a 50s or 60s model..

    When families quit having so many children, and economic conditions changed, the churches declined because the children that were there grew up, moved away to make a life of their own..

    NOW we have left over dinosaurs that still want church done the way it was in the 50s because they have mistaken godliness with cultural preference..

    The youth sees this.. The churches of old are now empty shells with the stench of "Old time" religion.. that never was religion.. but social clubs of the 50s where women wore hats and tried to outdo each other!..

    That's my take on it...

    UNtil the Christians get real today, and quit arguing over stupid stuff like music, drama, styles of preaching, C vs A.. KJVOnyism.. the the youth will stay away in droves..

    NO one wants to be around that stuff unless they are psychotic!
     
  3. revmwc

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    A very well known Evangelist said "you can change the method but not the message".

    We need to use whatever method we find to reach the youth but never change the message of the Gospel of Christ.
     
  4. sag38

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    I remember preaching at my mom and dad's church one evening about twenty years ago. God forbid, I didn't wear a tie. I was told that anytime I preached that I was to wear at tie. There was no concern for the message but an indignation that I didn't wear a tie. No real concern for the gospel but a great concern for appearance. That's the kind of stupidity that is running the youth off.

    Maybe some other pastors can relate to this but it seems that the #1 complaint that I get in the church over the years from serving as a pastor is over the heating and AC. I've had people get down right ugly over it. Or they complain because we ran out of paper towels in the bathroom or their Sunday School room was dirty. But, never has anyone gotten so upset because their neighbor is lost that they bitterly complained and called out to God. God forbid that they be uncomfortable in the building but good luck to those who don't know Christ.
     
    #4 sag38, May 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2011
  5. revmwc

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    To reach the youth today, check this sight out:

    http://achosengeneration.org/


    This is on the website:

    "Helping the youth of the world discover Godly adulthood!

    What does it mean to be an "adult"? How do you know when you become an adult?

    Our culture says adulthood is the right to consume alcohol, watch "adult" movies and use "adult" language. We have an entire culture of young people that crave significance, yet live in a time of confusion, violence and immorality. How do they find their way out of "teenage never-never land" to become Godly adults, able to lead the church of the future?

    There is an astronomical amount of young people leaving the church in their high school and college years. They deem the church as irrelevant and never connect with their local body of believers. Some return to the church when they have children of their own, but many never return.

    Yet it is common throughout the Bible for people to receive their life calling and accomplish great things for the Lord while they are in their teen years. It is clear in Scripture that young people are a vital part of the church's present and future effectiveness.

    How can we connect our young people to the church body in a significant way?
    How can we help them become strong leaders that walk in confidence as godly adults?
    At A CHOSEN GENERATION, we are committed to helping your church do just that!"
     
  6. JohnDeereFan

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    You objection shouldn't have been to the style of music, but to the emphasis on entertainment.

    No. Neither Johnny Cash nor the songwriters whom Elvis covered were writing for the church nor for worship.

    There is music that's meant for entertainment and music that's meant for the edification of the Body of Christ and for worship.

    I don't see anything wrong with using Christian themes or imagery in secular music or recreational music, assuming those things are represented accurately.

    Many of my favorite Johnny Cash songs are gospel songs: "Belshazzar" (the original, not the awful remake he did years later), "I Was There When it Happened" (a mostly fogotten song that features prominently in the film, "Walk the Line"), and his cover of the Kitty Wells classic, "Dust on the Bible" (never released but taken from a TV appearance and included on a Bear Family box set).

    Great songs, passable theology (although "Dust on the Bible" has a little works-righteousness in it), fun to sing. But would I sing them in church? No. Because that's not what they're for.

    What if Christian youth of today begin to add Christian lyrics to rock music, or Rap music. Would this be wrong? Would we frown upon such and discourage them from attending our Churches? They claim to be Born Again.

    Preach the Gospel and the youth God calls will come. If you want to attract youth by luring them in with music, then what are you going to do if musical styles change?

    We should never try to attract people with gimmicks.

    And what's with the obsession with youth, anyway? Everywhere I look, it seems like all anybody cares about is youth. Why doesn't anybody ever ask what they can do to attract more old people? Why has the church adopted the world's obsession with youth? Why isn't our focus on preaching the Gospel and then, once somebody gets saved, shepherding them in the grace and knowledge of the Lord?

    Do you really want to know why young people don't want to go to church? Because too many churches have put such an emphasis on entertaining them that they've never had an opportunity to hear the Gospel or to be discipled. Church is for the Body of Christ. If these young people aren't in the Body of Christ, then church has no meaning for them and, to be honest, if a church believes they should lure young people in by playing rock music, then it's probably going to be a pretty shallow church to begin with.

    You may now procede with the name calling and personal attacks that will inevitably follow.
     
  7. HAMel

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    We should never try to attract people with gimmicks.

    You missed the point.

    Christian lyrics applied to modern style music is not a gimmick. The message is still there. However, as the one poster stated, he preached without a tie and this was worthy of scorn? Is a message in a tie? A black suit? A blue suit? No suit? Do missionaries in the far reaches of our world preach in a suit? :praying:
     
  8. revmwc

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    focus should be on all generation we should have "intergenrational" churches. The problem most of the 25 to 45 year old have left the church, we have youth but once they hit a certain age they seem to abandon church. Why maybe it is the culture of the church, they trusted Christ, they were saved but how much time do we spend getting them involved in all aspects of Church life? We have fellowships where we come eat and play games, is that what church is about. How many of the youth and ayoung adults do we make part of the service? Have them as ushers handing out the Sunday bulletin, or having them help take up the offering. How about have them involved in church business, asking them what they think we should do to improve the buildings looks. How about if the Pastor asked some of them to give their testimony. Get them involved in everthing, Dr. Chuck Stecker the guy that has "Chosen Generation" as a ministry practices rights of passage for the youth, I posted a link to his website a few post back. Give your youth a right to passage, have things to get them interacting with the older generations and the older generation interacting with them. The emphasis should be on "intergenerational" not one generation.
     
  9. JohnDeereFan

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    Yeah...and?

    If they abandoned the church, then what sort of relationship did they have to begin with?

    Why the emphasis on chasing after people who are most likely not saved and who don't want to be a part of the church?

    If they want to go, then let them go. The phrase, "they went out from us because they were not of us" comes to mind.
     
  10. JohnDeereFan

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    If it's done for the purpose of attracting young people, then it's a gimmick.
     
  11. revmwc

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    Would you do this one in church?

    words & music by Arthur Glenn)
    You saw me crying in the chapel.
    The tears I shed were tears of joy
    I know the meaning of contentment
    Now I am happy with the Lord

    Just a plain and simple chapel
    Where humble people go to pray
    I pray the Lord that I'll grow stronger
    As I live from day to day

    I've searched and I've searched
    But I couldn't find
    No way on earth
    To gain peace of mind

    Now I'm happy in the chapel
    Where people are of one accord
    Yes,We gather in the chapel
    Just to sing and praise the Lord

    Ev'ry sinner looks for something
    That will put his heart at ease
    There is only one true answer
    He must get down on his knees

    Meet your neighbor in the chapel
    Join with him in tears of joy
    You'll know the meaning of contentment
    Then you'll be happy with the Lord

    You'll search and you'll search
    But you'll never find
    No way on earth
    To gain peace of mind

    Take your troubles to the chapel
    Get down on your knees and pray
    And Your burdens will be lighter
    And you'll surely find the way
     
  12. HAMel

    HAMel
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    If they abandoned the church, then what sort of relationship did they have to begin with?

    Perhaps they felt abandoned "by" the church. Perhaps they felt their suits were not up to expectations? Or, perhaps they felt left out as only the Deacon's had the right to input ideas? Or, perhaps they just didn't feel welcomed anymore.

    The gimmick?
     
  13. JohnDeereFan

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    Or perhaps, as you said originally (repeatedly), they abandoned the church.

    According to the OP, rock music.
     
  14. JohnDeereFan

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    As much as I love the Orioles, no.

    Beautiful song, but questionable theology and not for congregational singing.
     
  15. sag38

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    JohnDeere of the youth who have grown up under your the ministry of your church how many are still actively seeking the Lord in a local church? By the way, you have a very very tight view of gimmick. According to your definition if I'm using something to attract people then it's a gimmick. So, your sign in the front of your church is a gimmick. Inviting someone to attend your church is gimmick. Preaching evangelisticly to lost people with the purpose of seeing them come to know Christ makes preaching and the Bible a gimmick.
     
  16. revmwc

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    I love the old songs the old hymns It is Well With my soul, Wonderful Grace of Jesus I love but the new songs fit into theology too. As long as they worship God, the key is do they bring glory to God.
     
  17. Gina B

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    I pretty much like all music styles, although hip-hop can annoy the tar outta me.

    My kids are the same in that they have wide varieties of styles they listen to, although one is not as much into music and leans towards mostly modern styles.

    We've got a flute, a bass, and a violin in our home right now. At any time the kids may be playing any variety of music, but unless it's related to school, it's usually always a song related to Christianity no matter what the style.

    I understand the desire to interest kids in church by not being stuck in some kind of style that's decades old and holds no interest to them, but am really disappointed in the idea that any church feels they have to use this to draw in anyone. Unfortunately though, they do.

    And why? Because we as Christians aren't doing our job. Church isn't for unbelievers, it's for the saved. Church is a place to gather to rejoice in our salvation, praise God, and learn more about Christ and how to live more like a Christian should. So people coming in should be coming in because we told them about Christ and they believe (or at least are interested in knowing more) and then encouraged them to come to church and share their new belief or learn more if they haven't yet accepted and are interested in coming to church. That's how it's supposed to work, isn't it?

    Instead, churches are being used as once-a-week evangelism centers rather than being a place where Christians get together, get away from the world, and rest from their spiritual work from the past six days and get renewed and revived and refreshed.

    Is that really good for anyone involved?

    I don't know. It is how it is, but I can't help thinking that how it is isn't how it's supposed to be. It's backwards.
     
  18. Jkdbuck76

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    If I read you correctly, you are saying that the church lacks discipleship and mentoring. If so, then I can tell you that the church I attend has the same problem. Sure, we have good singing and fellowship, but there is almost NO discipleship. So when our house band gets old and dies, what next? I've had any number of people tell me that my church lacks deep faith and discipleship.

    Why? Discipleship takes hard work. Discipleship requires sacrifice. OK, I'm going to get off my soapbox now.

    Please pray for our church and our Pastor.
     
  19. revmwc

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    Is there a way to put a song on here?
    Not just the words but the actual song?
     
  20. Salty

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