Musical Instruments in Christ's church

Worshipping and giving glory to God is a wonderful spiritual happening, whether or not musical instruments are used. IMO, saying that musical instruments can not be used in a church worship service is like saying prayer can not be said unless you are in the church building.
Those who limit themselves as to how and when they can worship God, help Satan with his plans to keep the lost from hearing and understanding the WORD.

 

It is a fact that since the first introduction of instruments in worship they have been a cause of division.
According to most historical sources, the first organ was intoduced into the worship by Pope Vitalian I around 670 AD. It was removed to preserve the unity of the church, but 130 years or so later, it was reintroduced with less resistance. The Greek Catholic Church refused it as they do to this day, thus the Greek Orthodox Church. The instrument = division. (Any corrections as to the history of these events is welcomed.)[/quote]

Adam Clarke (well known Methodist commentator) said,

I only bring up these quotes from the past to illustrate that the stance we in faithful churches of Christ take on instrumental music is the same as that held by most denominational bodies only a few generations ago. It is the denominational world that has changed its' position. The groups that most of you are a part of, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, whatever.
Yet we in the church of Christ are seen as the weirdos because we still reject the instrument. If anything we're trying to get you all back to your roots.

 

Neither Defender nor I reject the Old Testament. Those things written aforetime were written for our learning (Rom 15:4). There is much profit in the study of the OT. However, to look to a Covenant that is no longer in effect for authority in how to worship God is ridiculous.

We can no more get authority for musical instruments in the OT than we can for having a Levitical priesthood.

We're not mad at you if you use the instrument, we just believe it's wrong.

 

Why would God change the rules of instrumental worship?

No longer using the levitical priesthood--that is a central tenet of Christ's work. To compare that with your assertion that musical instruments are evil--that's, in your words, ridiculous.

 

It's actually pretty simple. The New Testament neither condones nor forbids the use of musical instruments in the worship service. Why would that be? If it is as big an issue as some make it out, wouldn't God have addressed it? I mean the NT instucts us in many areas such as idolatry, pride, fornication, etc.

I guess God just kinda forgot to tell us about this one.

Worship in spirit and truth.

I feel most of us do very little worship, we sing songs, play instuments, and mouth words that we pay little attention to due to the familiarity. I do know I have been in the presence of God, both in Church where there were no instuments being played and other where music was played. God din't seem to mind,

In our denominations it has become popular to consider projectors as sinful, I have no idea where this stuff comes from. CoC saying no music, water baptise. SDA saying worhip must be on Saturday. Doesn't anyone get it:BangHead: :BangHead:

 

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[FONT=&quot]That doesn't make them wrong. The Corinthian church had many things that divided them. The Lord's Table itself was a source of division. Did they do away with the Lord's Table? Should we? That is your logic. Right the wrong, Don't throw out the right. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We go by the Bible. It is our only source of authority. Your source of authority here is history. Therefore we can discount it. When the automobile was first introduced as a mode of transportation, as opposed to horses, and horse-carriages, it was opposed. It was a source of division. Therefore, according to your logic, we should all give up our cars and go back to riding horses as our mode of transportation, just because it was a source of division. Being a source of contention or division is not a valid reason for something to be refused or given up. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And I also can give you a dozen more quotes. I think you know that.
But realize that both history and the majority are not always right.
Scholars have gone through stages where, like mindless people they just assumed each other was right. For a while all of them were amillennial. And then the fad was post-millennial. Now most people think for themselves and can see that not only premillennialism fits the Biblical eschatology better, but so does a pre-tribulational rapture. That is just one example.
Were the Crusades right? The majority of Catholics at that time thought so. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Again, the majority is not always right.
History does not always reveal the truth.
The Bible must be our guide in all matters of faith and doctrine. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Many of those people, copying one another, were wrong.
We believe you are wrong. You are erring from the Scriptures.
Where the Scriptures are silent; you must be silent, and must not impose your convictions on others. It is an area of soul liberty. If you choose to worship in that way it is your decision. But the Bible does not forbid instruments. In that you fail to demonstrate from the Scriptures. The NT is silent on the matter. You cannot make an argument from silence. It is a matter of soul liberty.[/FONT]

 

And that, sir, is your error. There was nothing "covenantal" about the use of music, or dancing for that matter.

If I were to infer from your statement that all of the Old Testament was "covenant," then I would have to infer that the wars God ordered were part of the covenant. Is this what you believe?

If I were to infer from your statement that all of the Old Testament was "covenant," then I would have to infer that when the old man of God (in Kings) sent the young man of God astray, this was part of the covenant. Is that what you believe?

I could go on and on. Instead, I ask if you're rightly dividing the Word in determining what is covenant, and what is not.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you; are you saying there is a set way to worship God, in a worship service? If so, where is that outlined in either the Old or New Testaments? (I've read the previous posts; but I'm not seeing the set of rules that say how we should meet, where, what time, whether there should be an opening prayer, closing prayer, whether the congregation is involved or if only the pastor says anything during the service, etc.)

 

Instrumental music, or singing with instruments, is clearly perfectly acceptable in a christian assembly. The scriptures are so very very clear that they are acceptable.

PRAISE GOD :thumbs: for all those guitar players and horn players, and keyboardists, and flute players, etc etc etc!


:godisgood:

 

An assertion that has yet to be proven.

The Law was enclosed in the books of Moses: Genesis to Deuteronomy.

Psalm 150 is not in there.

The notion that Scripture prohibits use of musical instruments is ridiculous. I rarely say that about any church group's precepts, but it is fitting here.

If the issue was not a primary motive for a schism in the Restoration over 100 years ago, no one would believe that notion. The reason anyone accepts these arguments is group loyalty -- the desire to believe that the group did not make a mistake in the schism.

No one outside your group is going to accept these arguments. You would not accept them yourselves if not for `our group can do no wrong' devotion to your group.

 

Nowhere in the New Testament do we see a ban against musical instruments in worship being in the will of God.

Nowhere do we see in the New Testament that God wants mortals to add a ban against what God time and again showed approval of in BOTH Testaments.

The burden of proof is against those who would presume to add a ban against what God time and again showed approval of in BOTH Testaments.

 

True, the Lord was with David.
I believe He is also with many of God's people who use their musical talents for the Lord in glorifying Him. It His will that we waste not the talents that He gives us; that we bury them not, for in the day that He comes we shall surely give account for that which he has given us. To bury one's talent (even a musical talent) would be sin IMO.
Here are some principles from the Bible:

Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might;

Colossians 3:23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

These are principles that can apply not only to musicians but to every area of our lives.

Now, it would be your obligation to present a defense from Scripture where there is a prohibition against the use of instruments in NT worship. But you cannot. Your argument would be from silence. An argument from silence is no argument at all. Therefore it remains a choice--a matter of soul liberty.

 

No you are not misunderstanding him.

To most people in the Churches of Christ, the few hours per week that they assemble are the very essence of their Christian walks. In radical portions, it goes even farther than that: it is what makes them Christians.

It goes back to what I said in my first post on this thread:

They assume that because the few hours per week they assemble is of top importance to them, it was to God as well. They expect that God gave them a detailed blueprint of how congregations are to conduct their meetings -- all they have to do is glean for it. After they think they get it gleaned out, they believe it is of utmost importance to be sure nothing therein is omitted and nothing else is included.

When pressed for details as to what exactly that pattern is, they usually refuse to give them. I have never seen anyone give them. Why? First of all, it would cause yet more division among their groups, because to them disagreement is just cause for division. Second, they themselves do not know -- they just `know' that what any outside group does which differs from their practices is `wrong.'

The reality is that God in His written Word paid scant attention to the proceedings of congregation meetings. There is not enough detail in Scripture to be able to reconstruct without human conjecture even one meeting of one congregation from start to finish.

To get around that, they talk about "expedients" where they believe they have permission to fill in where detail is lacking. Now, if any outside group does the exact same thing, it is condemned as an "addition" even though it is the exact same thing. They do not admit this to themselves, but the real and only difference is who is doing it.

 

Come now, no sense in insulting our intelligence. And you use the "rediculous" to illustrate a non-point. Nice try, though.

(but, regarding communion...are you sure you do it JUST like Jesus did? Careful, now...)

Wait...now we get to use the OT as an example? You can't have your cake...er, bread and cup...and eat it, too...make up your mind.

 

Any change?
Then give up your church buildings. That is a change. Take off your shoes. That is a change. In eastern countries they still take off their shoes before entering into their churches because they believe that they are entering a "sacred place," even as Moses met with God at the burning bush. So you don't follow the Bible after all do you?
You meet in a building exclusively built for assembling the church--not Biblical.
You don't take off your shoes--like the saints of old.
You drive in cars rather than by donkeys or on foot.
You use a computer to email, instead of sending everything by snail mail.
Even todays snail mail is much faster than in Paul's day.
You don't have the authority for any of the above.

Yes, see my answer above. You cannot make an answer from silence.
You cannot make a prohibition against cars from Scripture, and therefore you use one. But you don't use instruments, and thus are hypocritical in your use of cars driving to your church building for worship. Both the car and the church building are used either directly or indirectly in worship. But you have no command in Scripture to use them--only your rationalization. You play the part of a hypocrite--pick and choose what you will obey--through the silence of Scriptures.

It leaves lots of room.
Arguing from silence means you can make the Bible say anything you want. And that is exactly what you do.