Muslim, Islam

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Gina B, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. Gina B

    Gina B
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    Are these both religions, or is one a nationality? Are they different? If someone is a muslim do they believe in Islam? If they're Islamic are they a muslim? Help. [​IMG]
    Gina
     
  2. MNJacob

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    Same, same.
     
  3. Johnv

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    Islam is the religion. A Muslim is a person who practices Islam.

    Keep in mind, though, that there are many sects of Islam.

    The word "Islamic" is the adjective of "Islam", but it is not synonymous with the noun "Muslim". However, "Muslim" can also be used as an adjective, similar to "Islamic".

    (In contrast, "Christian" can be the adjective of "Christianity", but "Christian" is also a noun that referrs to one who practices "Christianity".)

    None of these refer to nationality or ethnicity. The majority of Muslims are of Arab ethnicity, but there are also large numbers of Arab Jews and Arab Christians. When referring to nationality, there are some countries that are Islamic Republics, which is probably where the confusion comes in.

    Hope that helps.
     
  4. MNJacob

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    Well said. I oversimplified.
     
  5. Gina B

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    Thank you! [​IMG]
    Gina
     
  6. BobRyan

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    Christians take a lot of heat for being "fundamentalist" and so also to Muslims who hold to strict Islam.

    #1. Can you reasonably "expect" people of any religion to "Disbelieve it" the way you do?

    #2. Once we allow for Satanists, or Islam, or whatever - how do you then come up with a "rule" for behavior? The media today believes they have found one - it is called "fundamentalism". IF you are a fundamentalist - then you are wrong -- no matter what your religion.

    In other words - if you really BELIEVE the Bible you are wrong. If you really BELIEVE the Koran you are wrong.

    ON the one hand - I think that stinks!

    On the other hand - I just hate seeing the Koran "followed" - the death and destruction it causes and the sheer ignorance is astounding.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. rsr

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    johnv said:

    You may be right (demographics are always tricky, especially in the developing world), but a quick check with nationmaster.com indicates that a majority of Muslims are not Arab. (I came up with a nonArab Muslim population of more than 800 million just in selected states in Africa and Asia). Indonesia has more Muslims than any Arab country, followed by Pakistan, India and Turkey.

    The Arabs, of course, have a predominant influence within Islam because of the historical roots of the religion, but it appears to me that Arabs are a minority.
     
  8. DHK

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    You're right rsr.
    Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation in the world, and Pakistan is the second largest. Pakistan has a population of 150,000,000. India, a predominately Hindu nation, has more Muslims in it than Pakistan does.
    DHK
     
  9. BobRyan

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    If Indonesia is the largest Muslim nation and Pakistan the second largest. Then how can India have more Muslims than Pakistan?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Gina B

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    Probably because the population of Pakistan is higher than India. So it can have more Muslims than India, while the Muslim population of India is greater percentage wise in comparison to other belief systems within it's own country.
    I'd imagine.
    For example, and I'm making this up, Pennsylvania could have a higher percentage of Christians if 75% of the people there are Christian, than California if only 50% of the people in California are Christians. But...if California has 10 million people and Pennsylvania has 2 million, one would say that California has more Christians in it than Pennsylvania does, but Pennsylvania would still be considered to be a bigger Christian state than California.
    Gina
     
  11. DHK

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    Pakistan is a Muslim nation, 97% Islamic, an Islamic Republic.

    India is a secular democratic country which is primarily Hindu. Its population is over one billion now, and though Pakistan's population has reached 150,000,000, India's minority of Muslim's is still larger.
    DHK
     
  12. Charles Meadows

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    Pakistan is NOT an Islamic state. It may be mostly Moslem but Musharraf's government is essentially secular. It's an interesting mix.
     
  13. ChurchBoy

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    The majority of muslims are NOT Arab. Only 18% of Muslims are Arab and Indonesia has the largest Muslim population in the world according to the current Time Magazine issue (Islam is the cover story).
     
  14. Melanie

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    Similarly places like France are converting to Islam more converts than any other religion I believe.
     
  15. DHK

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    I don't know where you get your information from. Pakistan has always been an Islamic state, one of the most Islamized nations in the world, with the Koran inshrined now into the Constitution, and Sharia Law to some degree being enforced. The official name of Pakistan is "The Islamic Republic of Pakistan." It is not a secular nation by any means. It's very founder, Mohammed Ali Jinnah, was instrumental in making it an Islamic republic at the time of the indendence of India in 1947. At that time there was a bloody war fought between the Muslims and Hindus. Most of the Muslims migrated to West Pakistan and East Pakistan (Bangeldash). And India remained predominantly Hindu. From the beginning Pakistan was an Islamic nation with a population consistently of 97% Muslim. To its minorities (mostly Christian, and very few Hindu), it gave some rights, but not many. They have been continually discriminated against since its inception.
    Pakistan has prided itself in being a democracy. But the truth of the matter is that its democracy has been overturned so many times that it has been ruled by either the army or a military dicatorship more years than it has been a democracy. Much of those years it has been under martial law.

    Even now it is against the law to try and convert a Muslim to Christ.
    It is against the law for a Muslim to convert to Christ.
    If any should take the name of Mohammed and defame it any way he is guilty of the "Blasphemy Law," and could suffer the death penalty.

    Those are some of the laws of this Islamic state.
    DHK
     
  16. Johnv

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    I think you're confusing mainline moderate fundamentalism (of religions in general) with extremist hyperfundamentalists. The word "fundamentalist" is sometimes contextually used to refer to the extremists.

    As far as Christians go, there's no question that there are extremist hyperfundamentalist Christians. The ones who blow up abortion clinics, engage in Jack Chick-ish tactics, hold up hateful signs outside funerals of gay decedents, etc. We should consider ourselves lucky, though. Hyperfundamentalists used to kill witches, lynch blacks, and jail people who didn't attend church on Sundays.

    Anyhoo, that's all a bit off topic. The OP was looking for simple definitions. I don't think there as any desire by the poster to start a non-Christian religions debate.
     
  17. Charles Meadows

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    DHK,

    Pakistan is one of the most pro-islamic countries around but it is not Islamic state - Musharraf wears a general's outfit and not that of a Shia cleric! There IS a difference. As I am sure you do I have quite a few Pakistani coworkers. They say most of the country wants an Islamic state but what they have is a western-friendly military dictatorship.
     
  18. DHK

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    Charles,
    It is The Islamic Republic of Pakistan
    The name says it all. The leader of the nation does not have to be a Muslim cleric, though the Mullah definitely have power to influence political decisions that are made. Go through the recent history of Pakistan. It always has been an Islamic nation thought its allegiances and leaders have changed. Zia-ul-Huk, the general that led the nation in 1984 brought the nation under Martial Law and introduced Shariah Law shortly after that. Does the fact that the nation has a dictator rather than a religious cleric change the religious nature of the nation. No. It is still the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Zia-ul-huk was assinated by a terrorist. Elections were held. Pakistan went through various Prime-ministers, most of whom were very corrupt. One of those prime ministers was Benazir Bhutto, the first female Prime Minister of an Islamic State. She made history. She was deposed primarily because of her husband's indiscretions. He was a very corrupt man, though Benazir was a competent leader. After her Navaz Sharif became Prime Minister, through elections. The nature of the government is patterned after that of Britain. Musharraf made many changes to the government giving himself and the army more control. Still it remains an Islamic Republic. Mushraff recently held elections once again. A Prime Minister was elected. More recently Musharaff dismissed him. The politics of the county go on. That does not change the fact that it still remains The Islamic Republic of Pakistan with all of its Islamic Laws in place, with all the people required, by law to give alms, (even to the extent of taken out of their account), with all the Islamic holidays mandatory, etc. In every way it is an Islamic Republic and always has been.
    DHK
     
  19. Link

    Link
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    Some countries are 'Islamic states' following shariah Islamic law. Indonesia is not an 'Islamic state' in this sense. It is the largest predominantly Muslim country, and if I remmeber correctly has possibly more Muslims than any country in the world.

    The church is growing here. Officially, Indonesia is about 90% Muslim. I heard one preacher say really Indonesia is about 25% Christian. They probably quote the lower figure to keep the fanatic Muslims calm here.

    The government has switched to area autonomy and is becoming less centralized. the result is that local goverments are closing down more and more churches here. As an advocate of house churching, I can see that could have some positive effects in the long run, forcing Christians to switch to house churches that are cheaper and can multiply more quickly.
     

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