MUST the Holy Spirit Enable sinners to save them, or is hearing the Gospel Sufficient

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Yeshua1, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    can sinners respound favorable apart from work of the Spirit, or is just hearing the Gospel enough to generate faith in them to save them?
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Excellent question! Most of the Arminians on this forum have argued at one time or another that the gospel in and of itself contains the power of God to save anyone and thus the gospel in and of itself imparts ability to respond to it.

    However, this is totally false, as God must "draw" for anyone to "come" and when God draws they come or else they are not drawn. The Greek term "elkuo" is NEVER ONCE used in scripture to mean "convey ability" as in transferring power from one subject to another subject - NEVER! The term draw is the exertion of power upon another object that irristably brings that object to the one drawing. The only case where drawing does not equal coming is where there is defects in the one drawing, or insufficient power to draw. No such insufficiency exists in God and thus nothing in the universe can fail to come if God exerts His power to draw.
     
  3. convicted1

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    If anyone can regenerate themselves, then they could have crawled out of the womb without any help from the mother's pushing of the doctor's help.
     
  4. JohnDeereFan

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    Can a dead man pick up the phone and dial 911?
     
  5. Skandelon

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    It's not an either/or but a both/and answer.

    It's not either the Gospel OR the Holy Spirit.
    It's both/and.

    The Holy Spirits means to enable and appeal for the world to be reconciled IS the gospel. The Holy Spirit inspired its writing, preserved it over the generations, and still indwells and guides those who proclaim it. The GOSPEL IS GOD'S MEANS to draw the world to himself through his bride and the scriptures.

    Even some Calvinists teach that the work of HS regeneration is only accomplished in and through the gospel (google "gospel regeneration). Well, this is the same thing, except we don't believe its effectual regeneration, we believe the gospel means can be resisted, but men are still response-able.
     
  6. Skandelon

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    No, but can he cuss at that phone, kick it off onto the floor and walk away from the phone either? All analogies fall short and Arminians aren't attempting to claim men make the call, we are only attempting to clam we are response-able to answer it when it comes.
     
  7. Skandelon

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    No one in this debate is attempting to suggest that mankind regenerates themselves.
     
    #7 Skandelon, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2014
  8. JohnDeereFan

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    Actually, that's exactly what the Arminian Finneyists claim, that sinners hear the Gospel and choose to "accept Jesus into their heart" by repeating a canned prayer.

    Before Christ, men are spiritually dead and cannot respond to the Gospel until God regenerates them.
     
  9. JohnDeereFan

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    If you believed in regeneration, you wouldn't be an Arminian Finneyist.
     
  10. Skandelon

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    I'm not an "Arminian Finneyist" and I do believe in regeneration. If you think that is the only alternative to "Calvinism" may I suggest some reading material for further study?
     
  11. JohnDeereFan

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    SaturnNeptune, is that you?
     
  12. Skandelon

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    No. Only one log in name is permitted and I've never gone by another name on this forum.
     
  13. JohnDeereFan

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    Oh, sorry. Your post was very similar to many of his posts.
     
  14. prophet

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    You mean this?
    Rom 10:8-21
    8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart:that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
    9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek:for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
    14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
    18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
    19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
    20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
    21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

    How is it that Israel resisted the outstretched hands of God?
     
  15. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Because the gospel does not convey power but is only the power "of God" when God directly uses it as His creative word to reveal the light of knowledge in the heart - 2 Cor. 4:6/Mt. 16:17/Gal. 1:15-16
     
  16. prophet

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    Luk 8:11
    11 Now the parable is this:The seed is the word of God.

    Rom 12:3
    3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

    Don't think too highly of yourself, everyman was given the same measure of faith, that is quickened by hearing the Word of God.
    You chose to believe His Word, and He regenerated you.
    He knew before Gen 1:1, that you would believe, so He acted accordingly. But He is not unjust, and you weren't given an unfair advantage.
    So, now, in light of His goodness and mercy, why do you seek to accuse Him of such?
     

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