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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Oct 16, 2012.
If they do not follow, was it the "real Gospel?"
Mark 16 tells of the signs that would follow those that believe the gospel preached by the apostles...
I believe many a well intentioned person has preached the "ticket to heaven" gospel with good results.
Many have been saved in the respect that they are going to heaven, and have avoided hell.
It stops there.
The gospel is not just a destination.
Jesus died to bring us back to the Father.
To have a relationship.
To destroy the works of the devil.
To set the captives free.
This is a purpose of signs and wonders.
Our examples in the bible were never without power, good works, fruit, signs and wonders, confirming the word, as they preached.
Scripture tells us:
Romans 1:16, 17
16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
That has been good enough since Apostolic times and it still is!
No, and it is a shame such a question needs to be asked.
Does your NO respond to the title?
Or to the initial post?
On wonders if y1 is being a mite disingenuous.
If you want to go into the profession of performing a magic act, then do so and stop with your flawed theology.
Could you give scripture and a reasonable counterpoint?
..and what was that power? When it first came to the Jews Acts 2... manifestations happened! Acts 10 same! Both the Jew and the Gentiles!
It is sad that what God calls manifestations of the Holy Spirit...some call magic acts...
He is only angry, it'll be okay when he calms down and realizes his error.
2 points about that!
is the disputed long ending, and some feel was 'completed" by one who added what historical did happen to the Apsotles, but NOT meant to carry on forward!
Also, Hebrews CLEARLY states that the Gospel and Jesus already HAD BEEN confirmed by Apsotles signs and wonders. NOT that they were still going on in that time!
How do YOU know they are not eithers works o fthe flesh, or demonic in origin though?
Matt 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Satan, a corrupt tree, cannot bear good fruit. Healing the sick, restoring eyesight to the blind etc, is good fruit.
Luke 11:17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.
18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.
Satan will not cast himself out. Satan is a deceiver but cannot produce what Jesus did. You will know them by their fruits.
Jesus taught that people who do not accept the authority and truth of Moses and the Prophets will not be impressed even if someone would return from the dead to teach them. You all know this teaching.
And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with [them], and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
The gospel of Jesus Christ had nothing to do with miracles, signs or wonders before Pentecost nor after Pentecost as the gospel has to do with the redemptive provision of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are justified by faith WITHOUT WORKS and such things are works.
Second, Mark 16 passage is directed explicitly to the "eleven" or apostles and the things that did follow their ministry just as Hebrews 2:3-4 claims they are identified with the apostolic ministry. Mark concludes that such things did follow as predicted by christ. By the time Hebrews was written these signs, miracles and wonders were identified with the apostolic ministry and largely in the past.
Third, you have not responded to my thread that deals with the overall Biblical purpose of miracles signs and wonders. by response, I mean a Biblical response that points out that my exposition is in error.
Fourth, the absolute "LYING" affilfiation that such pentecostal/charismatic miracles have today is beyond dispute. Every single solitary public prophet in this movement has prophesied falsely and thus are "LYING" signs and wonders as they AFFIRM FALSEHOODS. The absolute complete division and confusion of this movement. The false gospels preached within this movement. All these things characterize miracles signs and wonders that are "LYING" - meaning the spirit/power behind them AFFIRMS LIES as truth.
We can do greater works than God himself in Human flesh?
Do you see sickness and illness/poverty etc as caused by and from the Devil, and that he can "get Christians" with that also?