My Views, Your Vote

Michael, there are certainly Quaker congregations where you would probably fit in fine. The Book of Discipline would probably give you fits if you were a Methodist, as would the episcopal hierarchy and canon law if you were an Episcopalian. I'd say baptist remains the best fit.

No need to quote those prayer book prayers here on my account. We plan worship at Virginia-Highland Baptist out of the Book of Common Prayer.

Joshua

 

Michael why aren't we once saved always saved? When Jesus explained it to Nicodemus He reffered to being born again and being born of water and of Spirit. We can die be killed and even completly evaporated but not unborn. So like our bodies being born and can't be unborn after that neither can our soul be 'unborn' once it is saved.

Brian

 

Sorry forgot to vote. Not Baptist. And like yourself I don't know what to call what you believe. Hopefully without angering you part af what Chris said appears to be true you make sweeping denoucements of people and thier posts when they don't agree with you. Like we are all defective because we're fundamental or real conservitave. Yet by your own admission your beliefs don't fall into any biblicly supported denomination. My sense of you through your posts is that it is indeed more about what you choose to believe than anything else. Again I really don't want to make you mad but you need to get right. I don't mean get right in the sense of agreeing with me I mean in the sense of not leaning to your own understanding but relying on the Holy Spirit to reveal it to you. Which by the way is another reason we can't loose salvation. Once the Holy Spirit indwells us He stays in us.
Which leads to a question do you believe that you can be demon possesed after salvation?
I'll shutup now.

Brian

 

My beliefs are best summarized this way

1655 Midland Baptist Confession of Faith

1. We believe and profess, that there is only one true God, who is our God, who is
eternal, almighty, unchangeable, infinite, and incomprehensible; who is a Spirit,
having His being in Himself, and giveth being to all creatures; He doth what He will,
in heaven and earth; working all things according to the counsel of His own will.

2. That this infinite Being is set forth to be the Father, the Word, and the Holy
Spirit; and these three agree in one.

3. We profess and believe the Holy Scriptures, the Old and New Testament, to be the word and revealed mind of God, which are able to make men wise unto Salvation,
through faith and love which is in Christ Jesus; and that they are given by
inspiration of God, serving to furnish the man of God for every good work; and by
them we are (in the strength of Christ) to try all things whatsoever are brought to
us, under the pretence of truth.

4. That though Adam was created righteous, yet he fell through the temptations of
Satan; and his fall overthrew, not only himself, but his posterity, making them
sinners by his disobedience; so that we are by nature children of wrath, and defiled
from the womb, being shapen in iniquity and conceived in sin.

5. That God elected and chose, in His Eternal counsel, some persons to life and
salvation, before the foundation of the world, whom accordingly He doth and will
effectually call, and whom He doth so call, He will certainly keep by His power,
through faith to salvation.

6. That election was free in God, of His own pleasure, and not at all for, or with
reference to , any foreseen works of faith in the creature, as the motive thereunto.

7. That Jesus Christ was, in the fulness of time, manifested in the flesh; being born of
a woman; being perfectly righteous, gave himself for the elect to redeem them to
God by his blood.

8. That all men until they be quickened by Christ are dead in trespasses -- Ephesians
ii.1; and therefore have no power of themselves to believe savingly. But faith is the free gift of God, and the mighty work of God in the soul, even like the rising of
Christ from the dead . Therefore consent not with those who hold that God hath given power to all men to believe to salvation.

9. That Christ is the only true King, Priest, and Prophet of the Church.

10. That every man is justified by Christ ; apprehended by faith; and that no man is
justified in the sight of God partly by Christ and partly by works.

11. That Jesus of Nazareth, of whom the scriptures of the Old Testament prophesied,
is the true Messiah and Saviour of men; and that He died on the cross, was buried,
rose again in the same body in which He suffered and ascended to the right hand of
the majesty on high, and appeareth in the presence of God, making intercession for
us.

12 That all those who have faith wrought in their hearts by the power of God,
according to his good pleasure, should be careful to maintain good works, and to
abound in them, acting from principles of true faith and unfeigned love, looking to
God's glory as their main end.

13. That those who profess faith in Christ, and make the same appear by their fruits,
are the proper subjects of Baptism.

14. That this baptizing is not by sprinkling, but dipping of the persons in the water,representing the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

15. That persons so baptized ought, by free consent, to walk together, as God shall
give opportunity in distinct churches, or assemblies of Zion, continuing in the
Apostles' doctrine and fellowship, breaking of bread and prayers, as fellow-men
caring for one another, according to the will of God. All these ordinances of Christ
are enjoined in His Church, being to be observed till his Second Coming, which we
all ought diligently to wait for.

16. That at the time appointed of the Lord, the dead bodies of all men, just and
unjust, shall rise again out of their graves, that all may receive according to whatthey have done in their bodies, be it good or evil.

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

 

I love the Book of Common Prayer though I don't like some of the paedobaptist theology nor the the 1979 adding prayers for the dead in it. I have major problems with that.That was not in earlier versions.

I use the BCP in my ministry and for personal devotions. It is truly beautiful. I have both the 1662 and 1979 versions. I especially like the ministry to the sick in the 79 Prayer Book. I thought I was the only Baptist who like the BCP.

Michael and Josh be carefull! You do know that Archbishop Cranmer the author of the BCP was a Calvinist Might win ya'll fellas to the 5 points yet.

Josh, Is your Church liturgical? Mine is semi liturgical..I quess you might say. Do you actually use the BCP for worship? I'm curious if your church follows is strictly or loosely.

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Kiffin ]

 

Kiffin,

We follow it pretty closely. As baptists, we feel free to use other liturgies or restructure the service as appropriate. When we do so, however, it is intentional.

The BoCP offers a beautiful and historical framework for Christian worship. Combined with the Christian Year it offers congregants an opportunity to have a healthy, full worship experience that is meaningful on several levels. I'm a big fan.

Joshua

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
Chris,

That is a lie; I do not think it is all about me. If that's the kind of **** you have to say to me, don't say anything else.

You don't know my heart or my spiritual condition.

You've got a fall coming; I can't say I'll be sorry when it happens. That's not Christlike, but neither are you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Proverbs 15:31-33 (ESV)
The ear that listens to life-giving reproof
will dwell among the wise.
[32] Whoever ignores instruction despises himself,
but he who listens to reproof gains intelligence.
[33] The fear of the Lord is instruction in wisdom,
and humility comes before honor.

Praying for you.

 

Please explain why you believe spiritual birth and physical birth can't be compared when Jesus himself used the analogy.

Brian

[ November 06, 2001: Message edited by: Brian G ]

 

Michael,
I think #22 is very much new age. All people do not have the "light of Christ" in them. I get real uncomfortable when the discussion gets to the "lights within" kind of thing. Glad to see you are still hanging in there.

Agape,

Mike

 

If I understand Calvinism right they don't really believe that you have a choice to begin with.

I don't see the contrast of the birth idea. Jesus says that what is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of spirit is spirit. Flesh and Spirit are contrasted but not birth. So this is one place we sure disagree. Birth is birth and you can't unborn. God is not the author of confusion and if Jesus wanted to contrast birth He would have. Instead He contrasts flesh and Spirit. Using birth as a common point of refference to do so. John 3:6&7

"That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."

Where is the contrast of birth? I see the differences between physical and Spiritual birth but not different births. Again you can't get unborn in any way.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael Wrenn:
Kiffin,

It is said that the BCP has influenced more people than any other book in the English language, second only to the Bible. I, too, have a problem with the baptismal sacramentalism, but as a worship resource of great beauty, it is unsurpassed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Oh how true. I'm another SBC who often personally uses the Book of Common Prayer. I have the 1928 version. I also have a collection of liturgical hymnals whose words I love to read.

Chris,
Actually I have considered this a very interesting thread and not "all about Michael". Reminds me of when I was in school and we read a lot of theory, then we had a case study to discuss.

Karen