Need Some Help Re: Campbellite Teaching

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Bro. Jeff, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. Bro. Jeff

    Bro. Jeff
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    Note: This post is obviously intended for those who don't hold to the positions listed below as Campbellite.


    Someone I care about has come under the influence of Campbellite teaching. (Church of Christ where I am) This entails baptismal regeneration, loss of salvation, etc.

    I was wondering if anyone knew of any books or online resources that I could leave with them - they have been given quite a bit of literature by the Campbellites and I would like to leave something to counter balance their literature as I won't have the time nor opportunity to go point by point with them as they read.

    Thanks ahead of time.
     
  2. Marcia

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  3. Russ Kelly

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    Jeff
    I have had quite a lot of experience with this subject if you want to open it up to a full discusssion.

    Russ Kelly, Ph. D.
     
  4. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    My approach in situations like this is generally to encourage the people to grow in their faith. One of the best ways to do this is by allowing the love of Jesus Christ to radiate to them through you. Baptismal regeneration is not the awful doctrine that some Baptists make it out to be, and it is a doctrine which many Baptists do not understand very well. The Church of Christ, on the other hand, is very competent at teaching this doctrine, and when people oppose them, they often find themselves walking away with their tails between their legs.

    The early church Fathers, through whom it pleased our Lord to formulate the doctrine of the Trinity and to establish the Canon of the New Testament, believed, for the most part, in Baptismal Regeneration, and they all believed in conditional security (the doctrine of eternal security was not formalized as a doctrine until after 1500), and the large majority of churches today do not believe that doctrine. Therefore these doctrines need not be a stumbling block, and they usually become a stumbling block only when they are attacked by those who dissent from these doctrines.

    Some years ago I had a dear friend who was coming under the influence of the Church of Christ, and their very strong emphasis on Baptismal Regeneration troubled me considerably because that doctrine severely clashed with my own personal experience of salvation and water baptism, so I can understand some of what you are feeling.

    Much more recently, however, I found myself in a situation where a group of Baptists felt very strongly that I had done something very immoral, and they were more interested in condemning me than learning the truth. A dear friend of theirs, however, came marching to my defense and supported me through the ordeal. This individual knew that I was a Conservative Baptist, and he, himself, was a very committed member of the Church of Christ, but the love of this man and his desire for the truth to be told and made manifest was of much help to me. And this man’s love for our savior and the Bible were manifested in all aspects of his life. I wish that I could say the same for all of my Baptist friends, and Baptists who are not my friends.

    Over the years I have know hundreds of Christians, but not very many of them were really, truly sold out for Christ where they would lay down their life without a second thought. One very dear Baptist friend of mine, however, did exactly that—and was martyred on the spot. The other really sold out Christians that I have know were members of several denominations—The Assemblies of God, the Church of the Nazarene, The Church of God, Cleveland Tennessee, an evangelical Presbyterian church, and perhaps a couple others who do not presently come to mind.

    Moral of the story: Don’t panic if some of your friends and relatives believe a little differently than you do. If they start reading the Book of Mormon or publications by the Watchtower Society, however, it may be time to begin fasting and praying.
     
  5. Bob Colgan

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    CRAIGBYTHESEA,

    If you truely believe what you are saying you are way off base. Infact the base your off is the diffrence between Heaven and Hell.
    Any body that is putting there trust in any thing other that Jesus Christ is lost and on there way to Hell. We must fully put are trust in Him and Him alone. Not Jesus plus any thing, Then Jesus Christ is made of no use. In Him and Him alone. No matter what a friend may say who clames to be a conservitave Baptist are no matter what kind of feelings we may have are how holy someone may appear to be (look at the Mormans.) Are final athority must allways be Gods Holy Word. We may be able to have a in house debate with are brothers and sisters if one can loose there salvation. But the topic if we need to add to the finished work of Jesus Christ is not a in house debate because they are not are brother and sisters.

    Bob C
     
  6. Bro. Jeff

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    Feel free. Anything I can leave with her to read would be wonderful.
     
  7. Craigbythesea

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    As I said above, baptismal regeneration is a doctrine which many Baptists do not understand very well. Indeed, some Baptists don't understand it at all. To put it in a nutshell for those who may choose not to study the voluminous material that has been written on the subject by Christians on both sides of the fence, baptismal regeneration is the belief that water baptism is the “means” by which Christ saves us by grace through faith. Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and most other Christians believe in baptismal regeneration. They do not make the issue of it that the Church of Christ does, but it is at the very heart of the reason why they baptize their new-born babies. I fully realize that some Baptists believe that they are THE chosen of God and that everyone else is damned to hell, but I am not one of them.
     
  8. Bro Tony

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    Understand completely---Reject totally. As do most Bible believing Christians regardless of whether or not they are Baptist.

    Bro Tony
     
  9. gb93433

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    If anyone understands the context and culture of believers in Acts 2:38 they will easily understand why that verse is true. It would be much easier understood if one were to ask a Korean or Chinese or Japanese person.

    The people were baptized because they believed. They were not baptized and then believed. History shows that many times what accompanied belief and baptism was execution, torture or other evil things at the hands of the non-believers. When one was baptized it meant they proclaimed Christ as their Lord thereby renouncing the emperor as their lord. This meant the emperor if he chose, could have had that person executed.
     
  10. Bob Colgan

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    Craigbtthesea,
    I understand 100% I have know people who held onto that doctrine. So I was forced to study it I'm not an expert. But don't say I don't understand it. It's a doctrine straight from the pits of Hell> I'm shocked that a so called conservative Baptist would believe such a lie. If they do believe this lie they sure arent conservative/Baptist at least none I have ever ran with. And I would say they aren't a Christian defently not a saved Christian(I'm not judgeing any ones salvation on this bord)This is fundamental Christianity.

    Bro. Jeff if your friend is involved with this religion there in trouble. No mater what someone may have to say. I looked at the web sites that Marcia provided and I'm familier with most of them www.carm.org is very good. Ill try to give some scripture reffrence tomorrow. I don't have time tonight. But check out that one web site carm.


    Bob C
     
  11. Craigbythesea

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    "If you don't believe the way I do, you don't believe the Bible."

    Prov. 28:25. An arrogant man stirs up strife, But he who trusts in the LORD will prosper.
     
  12. Bro Tony

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    Craig,

    Now who is being arrogant? You cannot provide one Bible verse that teaches baptismal regeneration. Nor from another post infant baptism. That other traditions have practice or believe these things do not make them biblical or right.

    If the Bible teaches something I want to believe that. The Bible teaches that Jesus is the only Son of God and the only way to salvation. I would say that all Bible believers believe this, does that make me arrogant? Do you hold to no truths that are abosolute? If not you can't say anything is for certain.

    Bro Tony
     
  13. Craigbythesea

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    “Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians and most other people who believe in baptismal regeneration are not saved. Why not? Because they believe that the means by which we are saved by grace through faith is something other than water Baptism. I have no idea what it is, I only know that it is not water baptism.”

    :eek:
     
  14. Craigbythesea

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    For 1500 years 1 Peter 3:21 was almost universally understood to teach baptismal regeneration. I personally do not believe in baptismal regeneration, but I am not so arrogant as to say that I am right and that the very large majority are wrong and damned to hell because of it.

    21. Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you--not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, (NASB, 1995)

    21. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (KJV)
     
  15. Craigbythesea

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    That doctrine is not being disputed here.
     
  16. Bro Tony

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    That is not a statement I have made on this issue nor would I. So you can leave that part for your discussion with someone who holds that view. You don't need to call me arrogant for saying something I did not say.

    No but doctrine is and we each have our view of what is correct doctrine. What is biblical doctrine, practice does not prove that a doctrine is biblical, the majority does not prove that a doctrine is biblical, the Bible teaches what it teaches and it clearly does not teach baptismal regeneration of the baptism of infants.

    Again, if you are responding to me be sure you deal with what I have said and not what some other poster has said. Don't attribute to me that which I have never said and thus use that to call me arrogant. I would not do that to you, I expect the same treatment from you.

    Bro Tony
     
  17. Craigbythesea

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    You used the expression “most Bible believing Christians” in reference to those who believe the way that you do, to the exclusion of Episcopalians, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, and virtually every Bible scholar, pastor, and teacher prior to 1500 A.D. If that is not arrogance, I don’t know what it is.
     
  18. Bro Tony

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    Yes I used that term. That is a common phrase. If you don't like it that is too bad. Again, don't accuse me of saying things I did not. If I believed those groups you mentioned above we correct in their biblical beliefs I would be one of them. I do not believe they have correctly understood the Bible in the subject of this thread and I stated so. I sure they would state the same about my view. There is no arrogance, except in your pompous attitude.

    Bro Tony
     
  19. Craigbythesea

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    I do hold in very high esteem very many scholars who understand some scriptures differently than I do, but until you told me so, I had not idea that was being pompous. :D
     
  20. Craigbythesea

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    I'm sorry. I thought that you really did say what you have admitted to having said. And I am sorry for interpreting your phrases literally. Now that I know that you are just kidding, I will let you fool around all you want to.

    [​IMG]
     

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