New Living Translation

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lorelei, Aug 24, 2001.

  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei
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    Someone mentioned the New Living Translation in another thread. Is it not true that the NLT has changed some of the verses to be genderless or "politically correct"?

    I found a few of those (I believe in the NLT) when I got one for my son. He collects Bibles and wants to have all kinds of versions etc. (He even has a Catholic Bible) Anyway, we were doing our nightly reading and he decided to use his new NLT Bible that night and we were astonished at some of what we read. I had never intended to buy my son something like that!

    So, can anyone tell me what reasoning is behind this translation. (or link me to where I can find out) I have noticed that it is being marketed quite a bit.

    Thanks

    ~Lorelei
     
  2. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:
    Someone mentioned the New Living Translation in another thread. Is it not true that the NLT has changed some of the verses to be genderless or "politically correct"?

    I found a few of those (I believe in the NLT) when I got one for my son. He collects Bibles and wants to have all kinds of versions etc. (He even has a Catholic Bible) Anyway, we were doing our nightly reading and he decided to use his new NLT Bible that night and we were astonished at some of what we read. I had never intended to buy my son something like that!

    So, can anyone tell me what reasoning is behind this translation. (or link me to where I can find out) I have noticed that it is being marketed quite a bit.

    Thanks

    ~Lorelei
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Lorelei:

    FOr a self description of the philosophy of the NLT, see About the NLT

    There it says:

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The goal of any Bible translation is to convey the meaning of the ancient Hebrew and Greek texts as accurately as possible to the modern reader. The New Living Translation is based on the most recent scholarship in the theory of translation.
    The challenge for the translators was to create a text that would make the same impact in the life of modern readers that the original text had for the original readers. In the New Living Translation, this is accomplished by translating entire thoughts (rather than just words) into natural, everyday English. The end result is a translation that is easy to read and understand and that accurately communicates the meaning of the original text. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    For a classic article on the NLT, NRSV and others, see
    What's Wrong with Gender-Neutral Bible Translations? by Wayne Grudem.
     
  3. TomVols

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    I do find it ironic, however, that some of the translators of the NLT are opposed to gender-neutrality in translation. For example, I am referring to such folks as Daniel Block (Gen Reviewer of Pentateuch);
    Thomas Schreiner (Romans/Galatians); Ray Ortlund (Psalms); Robert Stein (Luke). Not sure what to make of this, to be honest. I wouldn't want to accuse them of capitulation, but it does seem ironic. Maybe they aren't as staunch anti-gender-inclusive as I thought. Chris, you may know more about this than I, but I know of Schreiner, Stein, and Block from Southern which is where they are now.

    Lorelei, I never receieved a response about what format to email you the brochure on Bible study resources. Email me at [email protected]

    [ August 24, 2001: Message edited by: TomVols ]
     
  4. Lorelei

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>In the New Living Translation, this is accomplished by translating entire thoughts (rather than just words) into natural, everyday English<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I like to have a few versions to study with, but I tend to not like the versions that are "thought" translated rather then by what the original wording stated. (Hence I never was a fan of the Living Bible) I think that leaves too much room for the personal interpretations of the translators to come through.

    I have experienced in talking with some Charasmatics that they get some of thier beliefs based off the definition of a single preposition. How easy it would be to make it just say what they want it to say.

    Anyway, I haven't thrown it out by any means. My son and I both will read a wide variety of versions and go back to the original texts when something comes into question.

    Thanks for the links, they were most helpful. I like for my son to have the resources to understand what it is exactly that he is reading. Since he is younger, I don't want to him to be so easily influenced. He was wise enough to notice the difference immediately.

    ~Lorelei

    PS. TomVols, sorry, I thought I had emailed you back, but now I remember why I waited. You should have an email waiting for you. Thanks so much for sharing the resources you have! [​IMG]

    [ August 25, 2001: Message edited by: Lorelei ]
     
  5. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lorelei:

    Anyway, I haven't thrown it out by any means. My son and I both will read a wide variety of versions and go back to the original texts when something comes into question.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sounds pretty wise to me, ;)
     
  6. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TomVols:
    I do find it ironic, however, that some of the translators of the NLT are opposed to gender-neutrality in translation. For example, I am referring to such folks as Daniel Block (Gen Reviewer of Pentateuch);
    Thomas Schreiner (Romans/Galatians); Ray Ortlund (Psalms); Robert Stein (Luke). Not sure what to make of this, to be honest. I wouldn't want to accuse them of capitulation, but it does seem ironic. Maybe they aren't as staunch anti-gender-inclusive as I thought. Chris, you may know more about this than I, but I know of Schreiner, Stein, and Block from Southern which is where they are now.
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I sure don't, and that perplexes me as well. Perhaps a call or email to them might clear it up? ;)
     
  7. John Wells

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    I am in the process of reading the entire NLT (began Jan 1 - one year plan). I have found it very enjoyable to read and understand. I've seen nothing, zero, nada, regarding gender neutral. If it's there, either I missed it or haven't gotten to it yet. I especially enjoyed Romans in the NLT. It made more sense than it ever has. Is the NLT my "final arbiter" in translation inconsistencies? NO! That's my two cents.
     
  8. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wellsjs:
    I've seen nothing, zero, nada, regarding gender neutral. If it's there, either I missed it or haven't gotten to it yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Huh? wellsjs, you got to it and missed it! I don't want to reproduce a whole buncha verses here. Please see What's Wrong with Gender-Neutral Bible Translations? by Wayne Grudem that I cited above! :eek:
     
  9. John Wells

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    Since the purpose of the NLT is "translating entire thoughts (rather than just words) into natural, everyday English," I see no show-stoppers in the article regarding changing a few pronouns. In most of the citings, the article actually defends the NLT as retaining the correct text. I thought "gender-neutral" would focus more on the "mother God" kind of stuff. I see nothing wrong with changing "to all men" to "to all people," and minor changes like that. Is there anything that should bring down the curtain on the NLT that you know of?
     
  10. Betty

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    I come to the Baptist Board every day and read every post in every forum. I am absolutely amazed at how intelligent and smart most of you guys are. And I admire all of you. I just wanted to say a little something about the NLT that you're discussing here.

    The Bible is God's way of communicating with us and I struggled with reading the Bible because I simply could not understand what God was saying to me... until I found the NLT. And this translation changed my life. For the first time ever I was able to understand more and begin applying the Bible truths to my life.

    I don't know if it's right or if it's wrong, but I'm thankful for this translation.

    And I'm thankful for all you folks who diligently seek to understand more of God's ways!! [​IMG]
     
  11. Chris Temple

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    Betty:

    That is great news. Similar testimonies were given of the Living Bible when it first came out.

    It affirms the translators of the KJV's statement that even the meanest of translations contains the Word of God. [​IMG]
     
  12. PreacherDave

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    We've read the NLT periodically. While sometimes the translation is not as full and complete in meaning as the KJV/NKJV gives, there are other times it gives a shade of understanding more than straight KJV. We found nothing blasphemous in it.
    As far as changing "from all men" to "all people"...Christ died for people, not just men, correct? In those passages it gives specific guidance to men, women and the people of God in general it is faithful, to all we have seen.
    Especially for people unfamiliar with reading the Bible, we feel the NLT is a good place to begin. They may or may not stay with it, but at least it's a good start.
     
  13. Chris Temple

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PreacherDave:
    We've read the NLT periodically. While sometimes the translation is not as full and complete in meaning as the KJV/NKJV gives, there are other times it gives a shade of understanding more than straight KJV. We found nothing blasphemous in it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I don't think anyone is charging the NLT with blasphemy. The biggest shortcoming is the same as with all dynamic equivalence translations - it overinterprets rather than translates. Added to that is the problem of changing singular pronouns to plural, therby affecting doctrine, similar to the NRSV.

    A prime example is Psalm 1:

    1 ¶ Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
    2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.
    3 He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper.
    4 ¶ The ungodly are not so, But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
    5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
    6 For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the ungodly shall perish. (NKJV)

    1 Oh, the joys of those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or stand around with sinners, or join in with scoffers.
    2 But they delight in doing everything the LORD wants; day and night they think about his law.
    3 They are like trees planted along the riverbank, bearing fruit each season without fail. Their leaves never wither, and in all they do, they prosper.

    4 But this is not true of the wicked. They are like worthless chaff, scattered by the wind.
    5 They will be condemned at the time of judgment. Sinners will have no place among the godly.
    6 For the LORD watches over the path of the godly, but the path of the wicked leads to destruction. (NLT)

    The NLT changes the relationship of God to the individual believer (he) to one of a corporate relationship (they).

    If one is going to use teh NLT, it should be used alongside a formal translation, like the NASB, KJV or NKJV. The KJV/NLT Bible which is being sold would be a good choice.

    [ August 27, 2001: Message edited by: Chris Temple ]
     
  14. PreacherDave

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    Chris, I have no problem with what you've said. KJV is the best standard in English. As far as "they" versus "he", our modern language (corrupt though it is) accepts "they" for individuals; rather than saying "he/she", "they" is used instead. So it's realizing that the "they" has a modern connotation--which is what NLT does; it uses modern axioms, English usage, etc.
     
  15. John Wells

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    Agree with "PreacherDave."
    Agree with Chris Temple.
    Especially agree with Betty! :D

    Peace! (until next disagreement) :D :D
     
  16. Aaron

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    I agree with PreacherDave, too. I use the NLT with my youth group. These kids are in middle school, but they read at the third grade level. (But there are some home-schooled 6th graders there that read at the high school level.)
     
  17. lightkeeper

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    I use the NLT alongside of the NASB. I find that to be a great combination. I buy paperback NT's to give out to groups like prisoners, or adults with cognitive deficits, etc., all of whom usually have trouble reading.

    I enjoy reading the NLT myself for its freshness and flow, which is great for personal devotions.
     

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