News: ACLU is at it AGAIN........

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by I Am Blessed 24, Apr 4, 2003.

  1. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    ACLU urges recall of religious AIDS pamphlet

    By DAVID ROYSE
    Associated Press Writer
    April 3, 2003

    The American Civil Liberties Union asked the Department of Health Thursday to remove some AIDS education brochures from circulation because they are full of Biblical messages.

    The pamphlets, with "Florida Department of Health" printed on the cover along with the agency's logo, are titled "A Christian Response to AIDS" and use Biblical passages to urge compassion toward people with AIDS and the HIV virus.

    The brochure asks: "How would Jesus respond to a person with HIV or AIDS?" and promises that "Jesus is our Hope." It quotes several Bible passages throughout.

    LINK

    :mad:
    Sue

    [ May 22, 2003, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Squire Robertsson ]
     
  2. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sue, if you found out the pamphlets were sponsored by or influenced by the Catholic and/or LDS church would it change how you felt?
    Gina
     
  3. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Last time I looked, the US had separation of church and state. What's the problem?

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  4. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    What's the problem?

    The ACLU! Again.
     
  5. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gina: I don't know WHO sponsored the pamplet, so I guess my answer to your question would be no.

    All I know is that it says, "Jeus is our hope", and that is why the ACLU is against it.

    It must have just come to their attention because this same pamphlet has been used for many years all over the United States.

    Matt: The church better be trying to stop AIDS and abortion because the state sure is doing much about either.

    I get so tired of hearing the same old rhetoric about 'separation of church and state'. Why don't people realize that was to protect the church from the state...not the other way around.

    You don't have to concern yourself with that Matt since you are not living in the United States. I don't overly concern myself with the laws in England.

    After all, there's not much you can do to change the laws in my country and there is no reason why I would want to change the laws in yours....... So why even complain about them??? :confused:

    IMHO,
    Sue
     
  6. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    Er...Sue, I don't think I'm the one complaining.

    YOurs in Christ

    Matt
     
  7. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    But Matt; I'm only complaining about the laws in the US, not England. And I don't stop at complaining, I do whatever I can to change them.

    Blessings,
    Sue
     
  8. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    You Go, Girl! [​IMG]
     
  9. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Matt, I have no clue government/religion works in your country. Do you have anything similar to the ACLU there? How does the government/church work together there?
    Gina
     
  10. rsr

    rsr
    Expand Collapse
    <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    10,079
    Likes Received:
    103
    And if it had passages from the Koran?

    The church should spread its own message, not the state.
     
  11. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,472
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed.

    I won't argue that people can't learn compassion from Biblical example, but the state shouldn't be sponsoring Christianity (or any other religion). If the DoH simply allowed different churches to create pamphlets and allow them to be distributed at clinics and offices, even if only one church took them up on it, there'd be no problem at all.

    Oh, and this is the same ACLU that fought for the candy cane kids . . .
     
  12. Matt Black

    Matt Black
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    9,141
    Likes Received:
    0
    You've asked a massive question there, Gina, and time does not permit me to do it justice.

    Officially, the Anglican/ Episcopalian Church is the state church - the Queen is officially head of that church with the Archbishop of Canterbury (Hairy Rowan) head in reality, he being appointed by the Prime Minister. Also, 26 Anglican bishops used to sit in the House of Lords (kind of but not really equivalent to your Senate) but I think that number has been chopped down recently and there are moves to include more representation from other churches and faiths in the Lords; anyway these guys have a limited legislative say. These are the only real links between Church and State that we have, the old parish councils, whilst still officially existing having very little political power outside the Anglican Church. Oh, and the Anglican schools which are state-assisted. (There's a big debate on at the moment as to whether faith schools are a Good Thing or not.)

    Unofficially, and apart from the above instances, the trend is towards secularisation, and if a leaflet confusing religious and secular matters had gone out, there would have been trouble - in fact, if the goverment had anything to do with it, it like as not simply wouldn't have gone out in that format.

    Re the ACLU. The nearest we have is a civil liberties organisation called Liberty, headed up by John Wadham who's a legal bod like me. It's a charity, not state-funded. They're more likely to get involved in miscarriages of justice, detention and treatment of asylum seekers, refugees and suspected terrorists than get upset about the sort of leaflet that is the subject of the OP. Most of the time I largely agree with them, but occasionally they can get carried away with bandwagon issues, like their opposition to the introduction of ID cards or the construction of a national database, neither of which I have a particular problem with.

    Re government-church cooperation - the Blair goverment waxes and wanes on this issue but, broadly speaking, has shown itself to be more amenable than perhaps previous goverments to the idea of the state funding church-based initiatives (faith schools being but one example); there seems to be a grudging admission by the government that in certain circumstances the churches are better-placed to target state aid, and so these sort of joint ventures are becoming more commonplace. This phenomenon is also apparent with local government - county and city councils. For example, my former church lets Hampshire County Council social services use its building for therapy sessions.

    Hope that helps!

    Yours in Christ

    Matt
     
  13. Gina B

    Gina B
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    16,944
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes, thank you Matt. It sounds like the boundaries have to be very confusing with that kind of set up, but it's interesting. It seems like they're intertwined but just keep secular and spiritual matters separate regardless.
    Gina
     
  14. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not a big fan of the ACLU, but in their defense, they have on many occaisions, especially recently, taken up cases where a person's religious liberties had been denied.

    It's difficult to know the validity of the ACLU's complaint without seing the pamphlet. My biggest question would be, was it mostly a health information pamphlet, or mostly a prosthelytizing one? If it was the latter, then the complaint would have been a valid one. If it was the former, then it wouldn't.
     
  15. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    It was a health pamphlet John. The state had been using them for years. If you click on the LINK in my story; you can read the religious references that were included.

    Sue
     
  16. Rev. Joshua

    Rev. Joshua
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/cjv.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2001
    Messages:
    2,859
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sue,

    What if the Florida Health Department wanted to start marketing to the Muslim community by printing brochures that read "Allah is Our Hope" or Mohammed or Barney the Purple Dinosaur? Would you want your tax dollars to subsidize that?

    Baptists are on record as the most strident defenders of the church from the state and the state from the church. That this is even a debatable issue for baptists amazes me.

    Joshua
     
  17. stubbornkelly

    stubbornkelly
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,472
    Likes Received:
    0
    It doesn't sound like a health information pamphlet at all. It's a worthy pamphlet having to do with compassion ("A Christian Response to AIDS"), but certainly not a health info pamphlet.
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sue, the link referrs to the news story (thanks, btw), but I'd really like to see the pamphlet itself to judge for myself. The story doesn't make a judgement either way. It's simply reporting the indicent.
     
  19. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    44,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    JOHN: That sounds to me like it is more for teaching compassion than to proselytize.

    KELLY: It IS a health pamphlet or the state would not have been using it for ten years for educational purposes.

    [​IMG]
    Sue
     
  20. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think we'd really like to see it for ourselves to make the determination as to the quantity of its religions content. The report doesn't say one way or another.

    I don't think that's unreasonable.
     

Share This Page

Loading...