Nichols and the Death Penalty

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. Phillip

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    I have asked about Nichols on the board before. But I would like to see what you folks think about the trial now occuring.

    Should Oklahoma have spent tax-payers money to bring Nichols to trial to try to get the death penalty?

    If he is found guilty, do you think he should get the death penalty?

    How many of you think he is guilty?

    How many don't care? :D
     
  2. Pennsylvania Jim

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    What, specifically, are the charges?
     
  3. Gayla

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    The charges are for the murder of 160 people in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal building in OKC on April 19, 1995. He was found guilty and given life in prison for 8 Federal employees who died in the blast.

    He should get the death penalty.
     
  4. Dina

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    Death penalty!!
     
  5. Pennsylvania Jim

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    My question again: What specifically are the charges?
     
  6. go2church

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    Move on, why continue to return to an awful moment in history? He will never see the light of day and will have to live with what he participated in for the rest of his life. Putting him to death might even be argued as a way of showing him more mercy, if your into the revenge thing. Doesn't OK have something else to spend the money on? They are paying for the defense and for the procescution
     
  7. Phillip

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    My question again: What specifically are the charges? </font>[/QUOTE]I would have to go to the court-house to get the actual charges, but I know they are looking for first degree murder of 160 people killed in the OKC bombing. Conspiracy to commit murder--160 counts. These are about the only charges the state can bring. Anything else, like explosives, etc. would be Federal.

    As said above, he has been served with a life-sentence in Federal Court in Denver for 8 counts of "man slaughter" (Murder without fore-thought) of eight "Federal Special Agents".

    Specifically, the prosecutor says he (Nichols) helped McVeigh by robbing a gun seller in Arkansas under gun-point and taking all his prize weapons and selling some of them to purchase "high test fuel" (Making the bomb much stronger than a normal fuel oil and ammonium nitrate bomb) and ammonium nitrate fertilizer. They are also trying to prove he broke into a building in Kansas and stole explosives used to detonate the bomb and primer-cord.

    He is also accused of helping to actually make the bomb (mix the ammonium nitrate/fuel in the barrels)---with McVeigh just before McVeigh took it to the City. McVeigh testified that he had to cuss him out several times to get him to come down and help make the bomb, but he helped out without calling authorities.

    Yesterday, the prosecution was arguing over a drill-bit used in the break-in at the construction firm where the explosives were stolen.

    For a very eye-opening book into the mind of a home-grown terrorist--read the book written about McVeigh by the two news reporters that lived in his parents town. It tells the story very well and gives the story of McVeigh (who admitted exactly what he did but was never appologetic).

    Nichols was in the army with McVeigh, he was a gun-trader and had married a mail-order Phillipeno (sp?) girl who had his child and went back home. He followed her and McVeigh gave a bunch of the guns he stole in Arkansas to the star witness in both cases (Fortier) who sold them to buy drugs. Nichols and McVeigh had a rented storage shed together in Kansas where the bomb materials were kept, the stolen explosives, primer-cord, cannon-fuse and stolen guns. Nichols came back to the US and got very mad at McVeigh for selling some of his stolen guns. This all occurred in a few year to right up to the bombing in OKC.

    The first degree murder charges are the main charges and they are (specific). Any other charges I would have to go to the court-house and pull the actual documents.

    The trial is taking place right now, here in McAlester, about two miles from where he will be put to death by lethal injection if he is found guilty. The state pen. is here. The venue was changed from OKC to McAlester after searching for an impartial, but talented judge and impartial jury pool. (so says the official record)
     
  8. Phillip

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    ....and the boy has a dream-team group of attorneys that you and I would not get if we were on trial. I know of at least $3 mil spent just to prepare security and part of the defense.

    The news hounds are spending a lot of their money having to drive to McAlester from Tulsa or OKC (90 and 120 miles). They are all camped out at the court-house.

    Not to mention the security issues of people like me who use the court-house a lot in my line of work having to get in and out. (small town, whole block sealed off, no parking, etc.)

    At least the First Baptist Church put up signs that nobody could park in their big parking lot right behind the court-house. Like its packed out during the week. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Daniel David

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    I would propose a new method in dealing with capital offense.

    The person needs to be publicly sentenced.

    Then, he needs to be executed publicly.

    This all needs to happen with great expediency.

    If people have it in their heads that a capital offense will follow with a quick trial and immediate execution, they will think twice.

    This current system is so slow it means next to nothing.

    Christ and Paul each affirmed the governments right to execute.

    Now, as to the method, where is my pick-axe...
     
  10. freeatlast

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    Phillip,
    my understanding of the reasoning for Oklahoma going after him is in the case that somehow he gets out of the feds system by some loop hole. They can then carry out an sentence they might get.
    However to his guilt i have no idea. The reports have been too little in information. The fact that he was convicted says he was guilty, but since from a personal standpoint I have no direct evidence I must stay open on his guilt or innocense. As for his punishment, if he did know of what was going to happen and offered any help in the manner then yes he should face the death penality.
     
  11. rsr

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    Yes, lots of things. It basically was the decision of a single prosecutor; the state Legislature wasn't happy about having to appropriate extra funds for the case.

    My opinion is that it is a waste of money; should he get off on the federal rap, there is no statute of limitations on murder and all the grand jury testimony (tons of it) is in the record in Oklahoma.
     
  12. Pennsylvania Jim

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    Phillip,

    Thanks for the info. My opinion is that if he is convicted of first degree murder based on the accusations you cite, in a fair trial, he should receive the death penalty.
     
  13. Phillip

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    Phillip,
    my understanding of the reasoning for Oklahoma going after him is in the case that somehow he gets out of the feds system by some loop hole. They can then carry out an sentence they might get.
    However to his guilt i have no idea. The reports have been too little in information. The fact that he was convicted says he was guilty, but since from a personal standpoint I have no direct evidence I must stay open on his guilt or innocense. As for his punishment, if he did know of what was going to happen and offered any help in the manner then yes he should face the death penality.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Not to disagree with you, but you can't believe everything you hear. Certain people like score-cards and resumes. If you think about it, a capital crime has no statute of limitations. If anything fell apart with the feds, then OK could file charges immediately and keep him in custody by moving him to the state from the federal prison.

    His sentence in the federal prison has already run out of appeal and it is life with no chance of parole.

    I'm staying neutral to see what people think, just trying to answer questions as they come up.

    Personally, yes I believe in the death penalty and that it is Biblical and the Bible backs it up. But, I'm interested in what people think on this particular case since he already has life in prison with no parole. [​IMG]
     
  14. Phillip

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    Yes, lots of things. It basically was the decision of a single prosecutor; the state Legislature wasn't happy about having to appropriate extra funds for the case.

    My opinion is that it is a waste of money; should he get off on the federal rap, there is no statute of limitations on murder and all the grand jury testimony (tons of it) is in the record in Oklahoma.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't catch your post on the statute-of-limitations, I said the same thing -- sorry, wasn't trying to steal your thunder. I think we okies are pretty much in agreement because unlike everybody else, it is "our" money, being spent.

    If you don't have to pay for it, its easy to agree with.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Gayla

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    I'm a transplanted Okie, who was half a mile from Ground Zero at the time of the explosion.
     
  16. Jailminister

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    I don't believe in the Death Penalty.
     
  17. Daniel David

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    Even though Christ and Paul did. Of course you are for the constitutional party, so I wouldn't expect anything less.
     
  18. Jailminister

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    Daniel David, i am not sure what that has to do with my opinion, but you have the right to your opinion. My opinion is based on the years of dealing with an unfair court system. If justice was not based on the size of your wallet, then I may feel different.
     
  19. Karen

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  20. Phillip

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    Hi Gayla, Nice to meet another okie transplanted or not.

    I was luckily in Tulsa that day, we were involved up there with evacuating all the Federal Buildings because we had no idea what the spread of the attack was going to be like, or who was responsible.

    The second day I spent at the Murrah building. Seeing the damage I saw was NOTHING like the television could show (as you well know). I would imagine you got quite a jolt considering buildings were damaged all over Northern downtown.

    I'm working on a book on Nichols. Maybe I could privately e-mail you or PM you and have you tell about your experience. I would like to know, if you feel like you can talk about it.

    I was in the courthouse yesterday when Judge Taylor came in the court-clerks office to drop off some documents. He looked like he was "mentally beat up". He looked extremely tired. I know he is working as hard as he can to keep this a fair trial so it can't be appealed. Nichols, hasn't changed, a little older, the same old blank face. He stared down the prospective jurors when they were asked if they could give him the death penalty. Some of them said it was quite spooky.

    The rest of the time, he is waving at people out the windows and joking with his lawyers. A real show, for him.

    Thanks and have a great day!
    Phillip
     

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