Nichols and the Death Penalty

So in your estimation, an unjust system overrules what God said? Wow, how sad and utterly tragic.

 

Daniel david said

What I said does not overrule God. What I believe is true justice. God is the one that told us about unjust balances. Our judicial is far from what God designed for us.

Phillip. You are correct about Texas. I am not proud of that record.

 

JM, the death penalty was affirmed in a time when Christ and christians were killed. How just was that? Oops, I didn't mean to dispell your position. Actually I did.

 

Whoa, now, accepting the death penalty is not the same as requiring the death penalty. By that reckoning, we should require death by stoning or crucfixion.

Unlike Jailminister, I'm not outright against the death penalty. However, I don't think that the existence of the death penalty should be required in a civil government. I prefer that it be repaced with a TRUE life imprisonment at hard labor without parole, but I don't have any particular problem with its use now. It would not sway me in any way as a Christian if the death penalty were abolished in the US tomorrow.

 

My point was the JM (a constitution party proponet no less) is against the death penalty because it is not completely just for everyone.

Well, Christ and Paul affirmed it in a time when the government was more unjust than it is now.

 

Daniel David, you have a right to believe what you want to believe. My point is valid. Our system of justice is run by who ever has the most money. That is not justice. When you execute someone there is little chance of undoing it when proof is shown that the party was innocent or either reformed.

 

JM, it isn't an opinion, you are wrong. The times of Christ and Paul were far more unjust than today. Yet they each affirmed the death penalty (open view and sometimes extremely vicious I will add). Explain that? I am counting on being here a long time.

 

I know you want me to be wrong, but I am not.
Here are some scriptures to ponder.
Dan 5:27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.
Hsa 12:7 [He is] a merchant, the balances of deceit [are] in his hand: he loveth to oppress.
Amo 8:5 Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit?
Mic 6:11 Shall I count [them] pure with the wicked balances, and with the bag of deceitful weights?

Also, please show me in the New Testament where Jesus or Paul approved of the death penalty.

 

I KNOW that God requires governments to be just. I am not arguing that. However, their failure doesn't let you off the hook.

Paul and Peter tell us to submit to the ruling authorities. That is a command unless we are commanded to do evil.

Christ tells Peter that if you live by the sword (take one's life), you will die by the sword (have your life taken). Duh.

Paul tells us that the government does not bear the (executioner's) sword in vain.

Not only are you wrong, but it is so glaringly obvious that I am not surprised to know your political affiliation.

 

Daniel David, let's take a look at these points.
I KNOW that God requires governments to be just. I am not arguing that. However, their failure doesn't let you off the hook.
Their failure is a failure and I am not trying to get off a hook. I am just making a point
Paul and Peter tell us to submit to the ruling authorities. That is a command unless we are commanded to do evil.
No problem here, except in this country we have a right to correct injustice. WE are in authority

Christ tells Peter that if you live by the sword (take one's life), you will die by the sword (have your life taken). Duh.
You did not need to ADD to the scriptures, they speak for themselves. This is in reference to taking out vengeance and not controlling your emotions. If you let your self get caught up in the wrong thing, then it will come back and bite you later. That reaping what you sowing thing. That passage has nothing to do with capital punishment.

Paul tells us that the government does not bear the (executioner's) sword in vain.
Here again you do not need to add to the scriptures. It says:Roman 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil. This is also interpreted as meaning to correct, execute proper judgement.

Not only are you wrong, but it is so glaringly obvious that I am not surprised to know your political affiliate.
First of all I am not a meber of the Constitution Party. I am and have always been an independent voter. I have voted Rep. and Dem. and a few times 3rd party. I do not understand what that has to do with this discussion, just because I see so much injustice in our court systems today. Maybe you need to spend sometime in jails and in court rooms to see.

 

If you think we have an injust system here, go and spend some time in Russia or Saudi Arabia or Iran or China, ect. While our system isn't perfect, it's still one of the best in the world. I'd live under a court system like ours than anyone elses.

 

JM, obviously you are content to live in shadow, so I will stop trying to pull you into the light.

Christ makes his statement to Peter after Peter takes his sword and lobs the ear off of Malcus. Somehow you have invented this other little theory to soothe your theology. Fine.

As to Paul, I am not adding to anything. I realize you think the KJV is more valuable that the greek, but the term Paul uses is the term for the sword of EXECUTION (that means you kill someone).

 

Because Christ commanded him to carry a sword if he didn't already have one. Peter was packin' heat.

 

Phillip, If I only knew where to start. Cons are cons. I am not fooled often. I do have a little descernment about me. I too know that our justice system is ok, but it is so lop-sided against the poor. Our system here is for correction as well as punishment. I have NO problem with fair justice. In Texas we have the death penalty and Daniel David, I do not rebel against it. I just speak out against it. I submit to authorities and do not rebel, but I speak out against injustice. That is how this country got started(PS this country was founded by folks who did rebel against their government, when speaking out became hopeless). Apparently Daniel David does not even understand what Jesus was telling Peter. It had nothing to do with capital punishment, it had to do with the condition of the heart, DUH. I also understand that there have been many bad governments that Christians have had to somewhat submit to. Jesus himself submitted to a wicked government and was crucified. So did Paul. I would say that they really did know about capital punishment and submitted to it. Did it make their deaths right??? When the wicked rule the people are hurt. Our justice system in this country is better than in most other countries, but there is much room for improvement. WE are the authorities and we have a right and obligation to speak out on injustices.
We may see things some what different, but please do not accuse me of not being in the "light". Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. He is real in my life and I am dedicated to Him and answer only to Him. I know where He put me at and what He has shown me. We had 12 convicts accept Christ last night. I do not know how many of those who are serious, but I know some will be and some will not be, but my calling to the mission field at the jails is real and I will keep on until God says stop.

 

JM, nice twist of what Christ said.

The situation and context demand my interpretation. I would recommend you do away with your Max Lucado commentary set.