NIV error

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by deacon jd, Sep 21, 2006.

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  1. deacon jd

    deacon jd
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    For those of you who have a NIV Bible [edited - c4k] I would like to point out an error that you need to know about. We all know and are familiar with the biblical account of David and Goliath, and it is truly an uplifting historical account of Gods deliverance through the faith of young David it is truly a beautiful portion of the word of God, but I would like to show you what the NIV does with it.

    If you have your NIV Bible [edited- c4k] please open it to (1 Sam17:51) this verse plainly states that David killed Goliath doesn't it? Yes it does. Now turn to (1Chr 20:5)
    this verse tells us that Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath, and this is very true,but we run into a problem when we look at our next passage(2 Sam 21:19)This verse tells us that Elhanan son of Jaare Oregin the Bethlehemite actually killed Goliath. Hmmm I thought David killed Goliath. Well I guess my old KJV has to many errors in it maybe I'll throw it away and get me a NIV. I don't think so friends. This is a plain contradiction in the NIV what are you going to do about it when that atheist throws this one in your face. I believe I'll stick with old faithful the AV 1611 King James bible.

    Casting doubts on a Bible translation by putting the word "Bible" in quotation marks violates the spirit of Baptist Board rules.
     
    #1 deacon jd, Sep 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2006
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Sorry my NIV Bible only has eight verses in 1 Chronicles 20, just like my KJV Bible.
     
  3. Lacy Evans

    Lacy Evans
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    I'm afraid to open my NIV.. Afraid I might get cooties!

    Lacy:saint:
     
  4. donnA

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    I checked it out and your right.
     
  5. tinytim

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    Not to hard to understand, seeing the KJV translators added "the brother of" in 2 Samuel 21:19
    (19) And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver's beam.

    You see everything in italics in the KJV is not part of the original text. the translators added them... sorta like the footnotes in the NIV, which incidently say the same thing...


    From the footnotes of the NIV:
    [4]2Sa_21:19 Hebrew and Septuagint; 1Ch_20:5 son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath


     
    #5 tinytim, Sep 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2006
  6. deacon jd

    deacon jd
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    Sorry about the typo the correct verse is 1Chr20:5
     
  7. tinytim

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    Here is info from the NET Bible,
    Notice that MT stands for Masoretic Text... the text that underlies the KJV OT...
    Here it is:

    The Hebrew text as it stands reads, “Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim the Bethlehemite killed Goliath the Gittite.” Who killed Goliath the Gittite? According to 1 Sam 17:4-58 it was David who killed Goliath, but according to the MT of 2 Sam 21:19 it was Elhanan who killed him. Many scholars believe that the two passages are hopelessly at variance with one another. Others have proposed various solutions to the difficulty, such as identifying David with Elhanan or positing the existence of two Goliaths. But in all likelihood the problem is the result of difficulties in the textual transmission of the Samuel passage; in fact, from a text-critical point of view the books of Samuel are the most poorly preserved of all the books of the Hebrew Bible. The parallel passage in 1 Chr 20:5 reads, “Elhanan son of Jair killed Lahmi the brother of Goliath.” Both versions are textually corrupt. The Chronicles text has misread “Bethlehemite” (בֵּית הַלַּחְמִי, bet hallakhmi) as the accusative sign followed by a proper name אֶת לַחְמִי (’et lakhmi). (See the note at 1 Chr 20:5.) The Samuel text misread the word for “brother” (אַח, ’akh) as the accusative sign (אֵת, ’et), thereby giving the impression that Elhanan, not David, killed Goliath. Thus in all probability the original text read, “Elhanan son of Jair the Bethlehemite killed the brother of Goliath.”

    According to the MT (The underlying text of the KJV) it wasn't David that killed Goliath... That it why the translators added to what the MT said in order for it to make sense.... the words in italics.
     
  8. tinytim

    tinytim
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    I don't know about you, but I want to know what the text actually says.
    The NIV gives the actual reading....with footnotes that make it make sense.
    The KJV adds to the actual reading with italicized words to make it make sense.
     
  9. tinytim

    tinytim
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    And you mentioned the 1611... my copy doesn't even have the italics....so I can't tell where they added to the word of God....

    2 Samuel 21:19
    (19) And there was againe a battell in Gob, with the Philistines, where Elhanan the sonne of Iaare-Oregim a Bethlehemite, slewe the brother of Goliath the Gittite, the staffe of whose speare was like a weauers beame.

    Now which is worse, adding to the actual text, or taking from it?
    adding to it to make it make sense, or leaving it alone the way God inspired it.

    The actual text from the MT says that Iaare-Oregim, a Bethlehemite, slewe Goliath. Now is this a mistake in the MT? You have to decide that...

    But if you decide it is a mistake, then realize the KJV OT is based on the MT!
    Too bad the KJV translators didn't use other more reliable texts.
     
    #9 tinytim, Sep 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2006
  10. webdog

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    Shouldnt' this be in the translations section?
     
  11. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Thats why we have a "Report Post" button.

    Give the mods a hand folks, please use this feature
     
    #11 NaasPreacher (C4K), Sep 21, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2006
  12. deacon jd

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    Friend if your 1611 KJV doesn't have italics then I would get one that does. If you have compared old and new testament scripture in the KJV then you found that some of the verses in the old testament that used italicized words were quoted again in the new testament with the italicized words being used, but not in italics. Thats right I believe that even the italics were inspired by the Holy Ghost of God.
     
  13. gb93433

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    Did you check the Hebrew OT to verify your findings?
     
  14. tinytim

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    1) I would like to have a 1611 in printed form, the only one I have is from e-sword.

    2) is this verse quoted in the NT?

    3) are you saying that the italics (that were added by the tranlators of the KJV) are inspired?

    4) Do you believe the translators of the 1611 were inspired by God to pen scripture, and fix mistakes in the underlying texts?

    5) if you believe that the Holy Ghost is "of" God instead of "is" God, you have a deeper problem than who killed Goliath.
     
  15. Jack Matthews

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    So in other words, tinytim, what you are saying is that the NIV translates the text accurately, while the KJV translators added their own words to the text which aren't really there in the manuscript?

    Deacon JD above isn't quoting from the 1611 KJV, but rather the nineteenth century revision of it, which is, IMHO, a "modern" version.

    THat's why I don't use a KJV. Too many italicized words, where the translators added things that are not in the manuscript. That creates a problem when you are under attack by atheists.

    BTW, not that I have been "attacked" by an atheist, but I've noticed, in debates with one atheist in particular that I've been talking to for about five years now, his quotations of scripture come from the KJV, because it is a weaker translation. One of his arguments about the inconsistency of Christianity is pointing out that the KJV translators were biased. I've succeeded in making several corrections in his perspective by pulling out my Oxford RSV (with Apocrypha) and my copies of the Hebrew, Septuagint and Greek NT. Most atheists seem to be well equipped with a strong working knowledge of Biblical languages. A Christian needs to be at least equally as prepared. That's why I won't use a weaker translation like the KJV.
     
  16. deacon jd

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    Tim here is an example of what I am talking about
    (Deu25:4) Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn

    (1Cor 9:9)... Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox when he treadeth out the corn...

    notice that the corn is in italics in the first passage,but not in the second
     
  17. webdog

    webdog
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    I don't like being a snitch :D
     
  18. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?TextID=kjbible&PagePosition=431

    No italics, but the addition was noted by the translators
     
  19. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Please - it would make our jobs SO MUCH easier :)
     
  20. webdog

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    I did it...

    Don't tell my parents...:thumbs:
     
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