NLTse Vs. KJV In The Book Of Job

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Rippon, Nov 22, 2008.

  1. Rippon

    Rippon
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    More than a week ago I had started a thread titled "NIrV Vs. KJV.After listing a bunch of comparisons I submitted it and away it went into cyper-space.So I'm at it again.This time with the NLTse.Even though it's more dynamic in translation,I think it's generally more accurate than the KJV.You say :"Well it was accurate in its time."Yes,the Geneva was its prime rival back then.And the language was very much the same between the two.It's now nearly 400 years later.The language of the NLTse is in contemporary speech;hence more understandable than one which uses ancient-wordings.Understandability is not the whole ball of wax;I realize that.But for now let's see how these two competitors stack up against the other for the 21st century reader.

    The KJV reading (word,phrase,sentence,verse or passage) will be at the top.The NLTse reading will be below.

    3:23 : Why is light given
    Why is life given

    7:20 : O thou preserver of men
    O watcher of humanity

    9:25 : swifter than a post
    more swiftly than a runner

    9:33 : daysman
    mediator

    12:5 : He that is ready to slip with his feet is as a lamp despised in the thought of him that is at ease.
    People who are at ease mock those in trouble.They give a push to people who are stumbling.

    13:10 : if ye do secretly accept persons
    if you secretly slant your testimony in his favor

    14:19 : The waters wear the stones
    as waters wear away the stones
     
  2. Rippon

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    15:22 : he is waited for of the sword
    for fear they will be murdered

    15:31 : for vanity shall be his recompense
    for emptiness will be their only reward

    17:6 : aforetime I was as a tabret
    they spit in my face

    18:9 : the gin
    a trap

    18:13 : It shall devour the strength of his skin
    Disease eats their skin

    19:6 : Know now that God hath overthrown me
    But it is God who has wronged me

    19:22 : are not satisfied with my flesh?
    Haven't you chewed me up enough?

    19:28 : the root of the matter is found in me?
    It's his own fault?

    20:6 : Though his excellency mount up to the heavens
    Though the pride of the godless reaches to the heavens

    20:10 : His children shall seek to please the poor
    Their children will beg from the poor
     
  3. Rippon

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    22:20b : the remnant of them the fire consumeth
    The last of them have been consumed in the fire.

    22:30a : He shall deliver the island of the innocent
    Even sinners will be rescued

    23:16a : God maketh my heart soft
    God has made me sick at heart

    24:1a : Why,seeing times are not hidden from the Almighty
    Why doesn't the Almighty bring the wicked to judgment?

    24:17b : if one knew them,they are in the terrors of the shadow of death
    They ally themselves with the terrors of the darkness.

    27:1 :continued his parable
    continued speaking

    27:2 : who hath taken away my judgment
    who has taken away my rights

    27:5a : God forbid that I should justify you
    I will never concede that you are right

    27:22 : he would fain flee from his hand
    They struggle to flee from its power

    28:3 : searchest out all perfection
    explore the farthest regions of the earth

    28:25a : To make the weight for the winds
    He decided how hard the winds should blow
     
  4. Rippon

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    29:4 : the secret of God
    God's friendship

    29:16b : the cause which I knew not I searched out
    assisted strangers who needed help

    29:24 : If I laughed on them,they believed it not;and the light of my countenance they cast not down.
    When they were discourged,I smiled at them.My look of approval was precious to them.

    31:5a : If I have walked with vanity
    Have I lied to anyone

    31:16b : have caused the eyes of the widow to fail
    crushed the hopes of widows

    31:23b : by reason of his highness
    For if the majesty of God

    31:31 : Oh that we had of his flesh! we cannot be satisfied.
    He let others go hungry.

    31:35 : that mine adversary had written a book
    Let my accuser write out the charges against me.

    32:9b : neither do the aged understand judgment
    Sometimes the aged do not understand justice.

    32:18 : For I am full of matter
    For I am full of pent-up words

    32:21a : Let me not,I pray you,accept any man's person
    I won't play favorites
     
  5. Rippon

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    33:6a : Behold,I am according to thy wish in God's stead
    Look,you and I both belong to God.

    33:16 : Then he openeth the ears of men,and sealeth their instruction.
    He whispers in their ears and terrifies them with warnings.

    33:17 : That he may withdraw man from his purpose,and hide pride from man.
    He makes them turn from doing wrong;he keeps them from pride.

    33:20 : dainty meat
    the most delicious food

    34:11 : For the work of a man shall he render unto him,and cause every man to find according to his ways.
    He repays people according to their deeds.He treats people as they deserve.

    34:20b : the mighty shall be taken away without hand
    the mighty are removed without human hand

    34:31 : Surely it is meet to be said unto God,I have borne chastisement,I will not offend any more
    Why don't people say to God,"I have sinned,but I will sin no more"?
     
  6. Rippon

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    36:16a : Even so would he have removed thee out of the straight into a broad place,where there is no straitness
    God is leading you away from danger, Job,to a place free from distress.

    36:17a : But thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked
    But you are obsessed with whether the godless will be judged

    36:23a : Who hath enjoined him his way?
    No one can tell him what to do,

    36:30a : Behold,he spreadeth his light upon it
    See how he spreads the lightning around him

    37:7a : He sealeth up the hand of every man;
    Then everyone stops working

    37:15a : Dost thou know when God disposed them,
    Do you know how God controls the storm

    41:13 : Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?
    Who can strip off his hide,and who can penetrate its double layer of armor?

    41:18b : his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
    Its eyes are like the red of dawn.

    41:23 : The flakes of his flesh are joined together:they are firm in themselves;they cannot be moved.
    Its flesh is hard and firm and cannot be penetrated.

    41:26 : habergeon
    javelin
     
  7. jonathan.borland

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    Thanks for all these comparisons. While watching football, I'm interested in the light/life difference in Job 3:23. Is this an actual marginal reading or a translator's invention? My 5-year old daughter has the NIrV -- not that she can read it yet -- and I like it for children because of its simple sentence structure.
     
  8. Salamander

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    In the Gospel sense, and it is that way found in God's word, light is life.

    His life is the light of men. Jesus is the Light of the world.

    In Him is light and there is no shadow of turning in him.

    As usual, rippon's comparisons show the KJB to be far superior in depth and giving applications to Scripture according to life's experiences as the living word of God is supposed to be/ ALIVE!
     
  9. Rippon

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    The word "light" is actually in the text of the KJV,NASU,ESV and other translations.Others here can go into more detail,pro or con on that issue.

    I'm all in favor of the NIrV for children.So you read it to her?That's quite the blessing.
     
  10. Rippon

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    I thought I would review a number of the lines which I posred from the KJV.From the context some meaning may be discovered.But it takes time to go through the extra hoops.In other passages the antiquated language is just so far removed from even late 19th century English that KJVO's have to secretly consult an MV to get any practical understanding.

    "swifter than a post"?Should a modern native English be condemned for not getting this at all?
    That's more like it!

    Who these days would get that?

    That's more like it!

    Now that is a puzzling passage from the KJV.

    Here's the TNIV : "Those who are at ease have contempt for misfortune as the fate of those whose feet are slipping."

    There is no rational reason to revere ancient wordings like this.It's just pure tradition to be unwilling to update the phraselogy.

    Here's the TNIV :"if you secretly showed partiality"
     
  11. Rippon

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    Continuing my review of some of the passages I itemized.

    Who could make sense of this ancient expression?

    Now that's more like it!

    Huh?

    Oh,that is much more understandable.


    That does not convey anything of clarity to a modern reader.

    While this makes things very clear.


    Say what?!

    Oh,that makes sense.

    What in the world can that mean?!

    "His excellency" just doesn't translate into the modern way of speaking.However,"the pride of the godless" puts things rightly.

     
  12. Rippon

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    No.That just doesn't compute.It's too obscure.

    Ah,now that makes sense.Here's the TNIV :"He will deliver even one who is not innocent"

    NRSV : "He will deliver even those who are guilty"

    That could be taken in an entirely wrong way.It might suggest that the Lord has softened his heart so that he is more disposed to honor Him.

    Yes,that's much better.Or :"God has made my heart faint"(TNIV,NRSV,HCSB)

    What?! A useful translation doesn't employ such hieroglyphics.

    Now that's much better.TNIV :"Why does the Almighty not set times for judgment?"(HCSB similiar)


    People might be confused with the parables that Jesus spoke.

    That's a lot plainer.TNIV,HCSB :"continued his discourse"NRSV :"took up his discourse" REB :"resumed his discourse"

    There is just no excuse to use such outdated expressions in the 21st century.Most KJV'ers,not to mention KJV Only folks wouldn't be able to decode such ancient verbiage without sneaking a peek at a modern version.

    That's a whole lot more understandable.

    TNIV,REB : "who has denied me justice"
    NRSV : "who has taken away my right"
    NJB : "who denies me justice"
    HCSB : "who has deprived me of justice"

    No.That just doesn't register.

    That's much better!

    TNIV : "I will never admit that you are in the right"
    NRSV : "Far be it from me to say that you are right"
    NJB : "Far from admitting you to be in the right"
    REB : "Far be it from me to concede that you are right!"
    HCSB : "I will never affirm that you are right."


    What does that mean?

    That's a lot more clear.

    TNIV : "search out to the farthest bound"
    NRSV : "search out the farthest recesses"
    REB : "to the farthest recesses they seek"
    HCSB : "probes the deepest recesses"

    TNIV : "He established the force of the wind"
    REB : "he regulated the force of the wind"
     
  13. Rippon

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    No.This not at all adequate.

    Wow! That's totally clear.

    TNIV :"I took up the case of the stranger"
    REB : "I took up the stranger's cause"
    NRSV : "I championed the cause of the stranger"
    HCSB : "I examined the case of the strnger"
    NJB : "The stranger's case had a hearing from me"



    Cannibalism?!

    That's quite clear.

    TNIV : "if those of my household have never said,'Who has not been filled with Job's meat?'
    HCSB : "Haven't the members of my own household said,"Who is there who has not had enough to eat at Job's table?"
    NJB : "The people of my tent,did they not say, 'Will anyone name a person whom he has not filled with meat?'

    Say what?

    Oh.

    TNIV : "let my accuser put his indictment in writing"
    NRSV : "O that I had the indictment written by my adversary!"
    HCSB : "Let my Opponent compose [His] indictment."


    A candidate for a colonic treatment?!

    That's a whole other "matter".

    TNIV,NRSV,HCSB,NJB : "For I am full of words"
    REB : "for I am bursting with words"


    It's just not a way of communicating God's Word in this age.

    TNIV : "I will show no partiality"
    REB : "I will show no favour to anyone"
    NRSV : "I will not show partiality to any person"
    HCSB : "I will be partial to no one"
    NJB : "I shall not take anyone's side"

    Exactly!
     
  14. Rippon

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    A decidedly different interpretation would be gleaned from these words.I am "in God's stead"!!

    No wrong impression with this wording.

    TNIV : "I am the same as you in God's sight"
    REB : "In God's sight I am just what you are"
    HCSB : "I am just like you before God"
    NRSV : "See,before God I am as you are"


    The last clause is not clear in the least.

    That's much better.

    TNIV : "he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings"
    HCSB : "He uncovers their ears at that time and terifies them with warnings"
    NRSV : "then he opens their ears,and terrifies them with warnings"
    REB : "God imparts his message,and as a warning strikes them with terror"

    The first clause is not clear in the KJV--"That he may withdraw man from his purpose"?

    That's certainly an improvement.

    I'll just deal with the first half of the verse in other versions.

    TNIV : "to turn them from wrongdoing"
    REB : "To turn someone from his evil deeds"

    That sounds rather effeminate.

    Much better.

    TNIV : "choicest meal"
    REB : "choicest dishes"
    HCSB : "favorite food"

    That wording just does not cut it.

    That brings much needed clarification.

    TNIV : "He repays everyone for what they have done;he brings on them what their conduct deserves."
    HCSB : "For He repays a person [according to] his deeds,and brings his ways on him."[Not quite up to snuff,but better than the KJV]
    NJB : "For he pays people back for what they do,treating each as his own conduct deserves."
    REB : "For he requites everyone according to his actions and sees that each gets the reward his conduct deserves."
    NRSV : "For according to their deeds he will repay them,and according to their ways he will make it befall them."
     
  15. Rippon

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    There is much much antiquity to wade through.

    Yeah,that's getting the message out.

    TNIV : "Who has prescribed his ways for him"
    REB : "Who has prescribed his course for him"
    NRSV : "Who has prescribed for him his way"
    NJB : "Who has ever told him which course to take"
    HCSB : "Who has appointed His way for Him"

    Too archaic.

    That's much better.

    TNIV : "See how he scatters his lighning about him"
    NRSV : "See,he scatters his lightning around him"
    REB : "See how he scatters his light about him"
    HCSB :"Look,He spreads His lightning around Him"
     
  16. Rippon

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    WOW! I think I scared away Salamander & Co.

    I think I should have made these KJV renderings into a quiz like I've done before on another thread.Again,without referencing some modern versions KJVO advocates would miss the meaning of many passages which I have listed.MV's aid the modern KJV proponent.Thank the Lord for His gift of MV's.
     
  17. EdSutton

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    Not real sure of this, but just a couple of hunches I have, from reading some of these threads -

    Rippon seems to prefer the readings and renderings of the NLTse while

    Salamander seems to prefer the readings and renderings of the KJV.

    :rolleyes:

    Ed
     
  18. Amy.G

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    Wow Ed! That's amaaaazing! What great discernment you have! :laugh:
     
  19. Rippon

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    Well,I'm not a NLTse Only kind of a guy.I prefer the TNIV actually.However,haven't you noticed that readings from a number of other versions were cited approvingly?NET Bible;NRSV,REB,NJB and the HCSB?
     
  20. Rippon

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    I don't think the operative word would be "prefer" in Sal's case.You're understating the situation.
     

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