No Condemnation to those in Christ Jesus !

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by savedbymercy, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Rom 8:1

    1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    Believers did not know it until they had it revealed to them by The Spirit.

    There has never been anyone in Christ who God condemns. Just exactly when are those Christ died for, begin to be in Christ Jesus ?

    Well in the Reckoning and Purpose of God, they were in Christ Jesus before the World began, when Grace was given them in Him then 2 Tim 1:9

    9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    This was before they merited the condemnation they did in Adam in Time Rom 5:18a

    18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;

    But this their condemnation, was not imputed to them, God did not charge them with it, but He charged it to Christ Jesus their Head !

    The condemnation incurred them in Adam was not charged to them legally, because they were in Christ Jesus their Head !

    Now this non condemnation is not known to them until their New Birth by the Spirit, then or Now they do walk according to the Spirit's revelation. So now it can be said Rom 8:1

    1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    The Now emphasizes the coming into the Knowledge of it , but not the sentence of it just then being True from God's Perspective. For God never imputed any sin unto them in the First Place, but to Christ in their stead !
     
  2. billwald

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    True, but until God provides a list of "them which are in Christ Jesus" it isn't useful information unless state state of being in Christ is a result of "walking."
     
  3. The Biblicist

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    There is no condemnation to those who are "in Christ" by justification through faith which is "of grace" (Rom. 3:24-26; 4;16; 5:1-2).
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    Those who Christ died for were in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9 ! Did God view them in Christ then as Justified or not ?

    Did God impute their incurred condemnation in Adam Rom 5:18a on them or on Christ their Head ?
     
    #4 savedbymercy, Apr 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2012
  5. The Biblicist

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    Did God "veiw" them as in Christ before the world began? Certainly! However, were they personally, literally and actually "in Christ" by faith, by regernation, by imputation, by justification, by calling, by glorification before the world began? No!

    Did they come into this world unregenerate, unglorified, unjustified, uncalled, non-imputed, unrighteous, condemned children of wrath even as others in regard to their actual condition/person? Yes and no amount of twisting scripture will change that regardless of how hard you attempt to provide mental gynastics to twist the scriptures to deny it.
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    bib

    Well then, Rom 8:1

    1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

    God does not impute sin or condemnation on any who are in Christ. He imputed it [their sin and condemnation] on Christ, Do you deny this ? You deny the very purpose why Christ came into mthe world to die on the Cross, with the sins and condemnation of God's elect as His cup !
     
  7. savedbymercy

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    Children of wrath as others !

    Children of wrath as others ! -



    Paul when writing to the Saints of God, reminded them of God's Grace towards them Eph 2:3

    3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    By Nature they were Children of wrath, just like other people. The Elect, though not the Children of the devil themselves, do partake of the same nature that they children of the devil partake of, for natural birth gives each human being the devils nature, which became through sin in the beginning. All men are born with a nature controlled by Satan's power or spirit Eph 2:2

    2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    All men, both Elect and Reprobate or Non Elect are born as David described here Ps 51:5

    5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

    That is the way the serpent's seed must be shapen through natural Birth, and The Elect as Well ! The Only thing that differentiates The Elect from the Serpent's Seed, is that because of Christ's Resurrection, the Elect will be Born Again , and given a Nature that Identifies them as a Child of God 1 Pet 1:3

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The children of the devil will never receive this New Birth by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead because they were not His Seed, but the seed of the devil Gen 3:14-15, but because of sin, and to further God's Redemptive Purpose, the Children of God by sin had to be born with the same corrupt and fallen nature as the Children of the devil are, and so by Nature, they are children of wrath as others, the others being the children of the devil !
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    First you are ripping Romans 8:1 out of context. He is talking about the EXPERIENTIAL "walk" of the Christian based upon their POSITION by justification THROUGH FAITH (Rom. 7:1-6 and 8:1-4) - finish the verse! He is not talking about any kind of pre-creation justification.
     
  9. The Biblicist

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    Mental gymnastics! John 8:44-45 defines what it means to have the nature of Satan and all men are EQUALLY born into this world with that very nature. They are children of Satan by nature and that is why they need to be "born again." They are children of Satan by nature and that is why they are called out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son. They are not in the kingdom of God when they come into this world but in the kingdom of Satan as there is no third kingdom. They come into this world PERSONALLY in a state of CONDEMNATION (Jn. 3:17-19; 36) under the wrath of God in regard to their experiential state. Sure they are by elective purpose foreknown, predestinated, called, justified and even glorified but that is not their ACTUAL STATE or CONDITION in regard to their person when they come into this world.



    So why don't you just admit there is NO PRACTICAL DISTINCTION AT ALL between the elect and non-elect by natural birth and by nature but they "ARE" even as others???
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    bib

    You just reject the Truth. The Elect are never children of the devil. They are children of God under captivity to the devil when they are born, but that is the extent of it !

    There isn't, both are born children of wrath by nature, both by nature are worthy of wrath, both by nature are at enmity with God, the difference being, ome is Justified before God due to their previous being in Christ before the world began, and the other is not, and their condemnation goes unredeemable !
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    Look! I just gave you solid reasons why your interpetation is wrong and this is your response? You do not deal with my objections but just come back reasserting what I have demonstrated to be false and given you reasons why it is false!
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    ALL are born into the state of beimng depraived/seperated from god, spiritually dead, childrem of wrath, and ONLY WHEN we place faith in Jesus are we reconciled back to God, becoming at that point his child!
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    You need to read my earlier post:

    Children of wrath as others ! -



    Paul when writing to the Saints of God, reminded them of God's Grace towards them Eph 2:3

    3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

    By Nature they were Children of wrath, just like other people. The Elect, though not the Children of the devil themselves, do partake of the same nature that they children of the devil partake of, for natural birth gives each human being the devils nature, which became through sin in the beginning. All men are born with a nature controlled by Satan's power or spirit Eph 2:2

    2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

    All men, both Elect and Reprobate or Non Elect are born as David described here Ps 51:5

    5Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

    That is the way the serpent's seed must be shapen through natural Birth, and The Elect as Well ! The Only thing that differentiates The Elect from the Serpent's Seed, is that because of Christ's Resurrection, the Elect will be Born Again , and given a Nature that Identifies them as a Child of God 1 Pet 1:3

    3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The NIV Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    The children of the devil will never receive this New Birth by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead because they were not His Seed, but the seed of the devil Gen 3:14-15, but because of sin, and to further God's Redemptive Purpose, the Children of God by sin had to be born with the same corrupt and fallen nature as the Children of the devil are, and so by Nature, they are children of wrath as others, the others being the children of the devil !
     
  14. savedbymercy

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    Some of my favorite writers are sadly mistaken, that the elect, while in a state of nature as in Eph 2:3, are yet under God's condemnation and wrath, but nothing can be further from the truth. It is for those very sins and the condition we find ourselves in by nature, that Christ hath bare the penalty for, He has been condemned already and took up their cup of God's wrath on all their behalf, and His Resurrection being a evidence of their Justification from condemnation ! How can they therefore be born into the world under God's condemnation and wrath ? Scriptures like Rom 1:18 cannot apply to them ! God's Elect cannot be condemned by God even while in nature as per Eph 2:3 ? Has not God's wrath and Justice been appeased and vindicated through Christ's sacrifice ? So it is very inconsistent with Gospel Truth to say that while in a state of nature only, that the elect are under God's Wrath and Condemnation, for in fact they are under His Covenant Mercy, and have been Justified from all Transgressions for Christ's Righteousness Sake ! It is impossible for the elect of God to be Justified in Christ, but condemned in Adam at the same time, to be under God's Mercy in Christ, and wrath in Adam !
     
  15. Yeshua1

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    God sees ALl as condemned at birth, as being founds as being sinners who reside in adam, while those who place faith in jesus are then see by god as being found now in Christ!
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    All of the serpent's seed is condemned when born, Christ tells some of them here Matt 23:32-33

    32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

    33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

    They have no hope of escaping damnation of hell, never did, never will !
     
  17. savedbymercy

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    yesh

    That is according to your false religion, but none who Christ died for are born condemned !
     
  18. savedbymercy

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    Even though the Elect of God never were condemned in Christ Jesus, whom they were Chosen in and in before the world began Eph 1:4; 2 Tim 1:9, Yet had they not a sensible knowledge of it until revealed to them in the Gospel, and they are converted !
     
  19. Yeshua1

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    Do they have sin natures, are sinners?

    IF so, already have been judged as guilty in their sins!

    That judgement is averted whrn the blood/death of Christ is put towards their credit line before God, and that happens when they make a "faith deposit!"

    As God has sitting in their spiritual accounts full pardons/new life in christ, but needs to be accessed by the key of faith, as that unlocks the door to the Treasures!
     
  20. savedbymercy

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    All you have done is give me reasons why you reject the Truth. The Elect of God have been in Christ from everlasting, and never have been condemned by God. Christ contracted all their guilt and condemnation before the world began !
     

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