Featured No One Can Know if He or She is Elect! Period!

Correct, so good works can be no real assurance that you are either elect or saved.

Honestly, I do not spend a great deal of time judging my fellow Christian. Not my style.

Again, if someone tells me they have trusted Jesus to save them, I tend to believe them. The scripture is full of believers who fell into sin such as Lot, Samson, David, Solomon,... even Noah got drunk and lay naked in his tent. So, I try to remember that all Christians can fall into sin. I have not always been the best Christian myself. Therefore, I try not to judge someone who claims to be a believer.

Well, if a person really believes the word of God, they are going to know they are a sinner in danger of going to hell. I would believe they really and truly mean it if they pray and ask Jesus to save them.

Now, if you are pestering someone to say a sinner's prayer and it is obvious the person is simply going along with you to get you off their back, then I would doubt a prayer like that.

That said, I have never witnessed a person pressuring anyone to pray the sinner's prayer against their will.

True story- Years ago I used to talk to this young fellow about Jesus, I even gave him some tracts to read. One day I said, You really need to ask Jesus to save you. He answered, I already did that. I was shocked and asked, When did you do that? He said, The first time you gave me one of those Bible tracts. What do you think I am, stupid?? I don't want to go to hell.

You see, if a person REALLY believes the word of God, you won't have any trouble getting them to pray the sinner's prayer.

This was a very rough fellow, his parents were bikers. But I believed him. I didn't pressure him to get saved, he asked Jesus to save him on his own.

 

Luke 12:42-48

The Steward's Servant in this case could choose to do or not to do HIS LORD'S bidding(that which he knew to do)but this same servant--if he goes and does as the Unbelievers,will suffer the same portion as the Unbelievers.

This is speaking of Servants of the Lord--the religious jews and rulers were not his servants neither was God their father,they were the unbelievers.

So this is talking of the LORD"S SERVANTS--going after the ways of the Unbelievers and would suffer the same portion with the Unbelievers.

Anyone else see this this way ?? So you have some of the Lord's Servants NOT doing right until the end--BUT still are Servants of the Lord.

 

I second this as well.......Any objective reader of this board knows un-equivocally that I am (and only come across to others as) the very personification and definition of humility.......

Poor Convicted......I publically pray before all that you might one day reach the level of humilty and Christ-likeness which I posses.

Publicans such as yourself...........I pray for, and with all humility :smilewinkgrin:

 

I have never suggested I have insight into how you, or any other Christian, begins their day. If you tell me that is how you begin your day, I'll believe you and have no reason to doubt you.

However, there are some "non-cals" who claim to know how "cals" begin their day, and it is not at all consistent with my experience or anyone of the "cals" that I know.

So, it would be wiser, IMHO, not to assume to know what others are thinking (constantly in despair over the issue of "election"), or what others motivations are (you only do good works to try to prove you're saved and elect) and stick to debating what scripture means in the context it was written what that looks like when applied to our lives.

 

Well of course they did! I am one unforgettable dino! :laugh:

(I will slap you silly later.) :tongue3:

 

Well, that's YOU. I would be extremely concerned whether I was one of the elect. And according to Piper and the other Calvinist writer I quoted, that is exactly what bothers many Calvinists, and it bothers them VERY MUCH.

 

You make much ado about nothing, and misrepresent Calvinism in doing so.

 

Obviously you did not read the article from the Calvinist writer I quoted;

So, much ado about nothing? Obviously some people take the question of where they will spend eternity very seriously.

But, if you really don't believe this stuff...

 

He doesn't "mis-represent" Calvinism........he UNDERSTANDS Calvinism Mex........he understands it at a "brass-tacks" level greater than YOU DO actually.

Any inteligent and honest person can see that thus far, (on this thread at least) that Winman and Dr. James and others actually have "thought-through" the Calvinist schema FAAAAARRR better than you or any other actual proclaimed "Calvinist" on this thread has.

There are some "Big-guns" of Calvinism on this board.............they just aren't on THIS thread yet.

Here are the people who understand "Calvinism" better than you:

On our side:
Winman
Van
Skandelon
Q.F. (even though he hasn't the inclination to debate it)
Dr. James

However....on the Calvinist side....there are ALSO some who actually have thought through the system as well and they are (a short-list)
Archangel (no-doubt he knows the system)
Luke (he does too)
Aresman (like Archangel......seems to merely dis-like confrontation even though they are BOTH smarter than anyone who has YET posted on this thread including myself)
JBH

Quite frankly..........unless someone of their Caliber speaks up.................we've seen little or nothing but some incredibly "Gibroni" defenses of Calvinism so far.....

These arguments are getting weak.......and they bore me.

Why don't you guys summon your big-guns? There are some brilliant Calvies on B.B............just none on this thread so far.

Winman knows Calvinism.......in fact.......he understands it better than YOU do.

 

No he doesn't. Neither do you. Luther knew it. So did Spurgeon and John Gill, and each embraced it. It is, after all the Gospel.

 

As DRJAMESACH said,

 

Sorry, but I'm 42, and you'd be at least 35 years too late to slap me silly.

 

Aaron...he is choosing up sides...

 

It is you that is missing it, it is going right over your head. You have no way to know if you are elect.

You say, I know I am elect because I have believed. That works in the non-Cal systems, because we believe Jesus died for ALL men. It is completely possible for me to have real saving faith, because Jesus died for me for a fact.

You cannot say that. You have no way to know if Jesus died for you. Just because you have convinced yourself Jesus died for you does not make it so. You could be completely self-deceived. In fact, Calvin taught that God gives some men a false faith that seems so real that a man would be deceived. That may very well be the case with you.

Just because you think you have real faith and are the elect doesn't make it so. You can believe a bridge is safe and attempt to drive over it, and it could collapse. What you believe doesn't determine reality.

You can deny that Calvinism causes doubt all you want to, and I can easily prove it does. I just showed an article from a Calvinist writer who says nearly every single person who doubts is a Calvinist, or a form of Calvinist theology.

You should give up while you are behind.

 

Well, to quote Weird Al Yankovic from the song "Amish Paradise", "Think you're really righteous? Think you're pure in heart? Well, I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art."

And furthermore, "A local boy kicked me in the butt last week, I just smiled at him and turned the other cheek."

 

You see..........That's sheerly stupid......

Debate the issue as it stands.....but, Win DOES undertand "Calvinism". So do I.

You are simply lying or stupid when you say that.

I understand "Calvinism".......I didn't reject it until I did.

Just like the average Calvie......I've NEVER ONCE read ONE SINGLE book which defends "Arminianism" not ONE!...........

I have only and ever read "Calvinist" dogma (as I know Calvinists also do, they NEVER read Arminians).........and I rejected it totally.

I KNOW Calvinism. It is sheer determinist conceit which invariably claims that anyone who doesn't embrace the Calvinist system doesn't "understand" it.

It's not only conceited.........it's un-informed and stupid.