No universal church?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Dale-c, Jan 16, 2008.

  1. Dale-c

    Dale-c
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    I didn't realize until fairly recently just how many Baptists do not believe in a universal church.

    Are there may on here that believe this way?
     
  2. JustPassingThru

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    I'll show you my ignorance ... when I hear the term "universal church," I think it simply refers to all believers everywhere.

    A local church is a group of believers who meet together regularly for worship and mutual edification.

    I suspect, but do not know, that "UC" may be loaded with other meanings that are not so obvious.
     
  3. MNJacob

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    Ruckman lives.
     
  4. Marla

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    The universal church is the name given to the church worldwide. In this case the idea of the church is not so much in the assembly itself but rather in those constituting it.
    1 Thessalonians 2:14; 2 Thessalonians 1:1

    I am a believer in the universal church.
     
  5. Joseph M. Smith

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    What you have been experiencing is a formal of the Landmark perspective that refuses to use the term "church" to refer to anything other than a local assembly. Thus no "THE Baptist church" and no "Universal Church", in that perspective.

    In my opinion, far better to embrace "church" both locally and wholistically, so that we can speak of "THE church" as the company of believers, in every time and place.
     
  6. Rubato 1

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    The universal church is proven by the universal lack of scripture regarding it. In the NT, the "church" is always local. The Body of Christ is complete (or should be) on a local level to meet all of society's needs. In history, referencing "the church" as a greater worldwide entity is a Catholic heretical idea.
     
  7. Circuitrider

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    I once had a somewhat regular attender who told me when I visited and encouraged him to join our church, that he was a member of the universal church. He believed that baptism was "spirit baptism," and so he did not believe in that either. I would have reported him to his pastor for church discipline, but he did not know who the pastor was or their service times or the location of their meetings.:laugh:

    The church of all believers or "universal church" will meet for the first time in heaven after the rapture according to Hebrews 12:23.:type:
     
  8. JustChristian

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    That's a shame. We could do so much here on earth.
     
  9. D28guy

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    The phrase "The Church" can accuaretly be used in regard to a local assembly, or regarding all born again people.

    The scriptures use the term in both ways, so we can as well.

    I recently left Ky to go on vacation in Myrtle Beach SC. While driving around I saw a non-denominational storefront church that had a meeting that Wed night at 7, so we went.

    The moment I walked in I had the discernable sense that I was with brothers and sisters.

    And why not? Although it was a different "church" (in one sense) than ours...they were actually *members* of the same "church" (in the other sense).

    Praise God!

    Mike
     
  10. Brother Bob

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    I believe there is but "one" church and that includes all that have been "born again'. They shall come from every nation, kindred and tongue. We hold to our local church because we know what their doctrine and practice is, but in no way do we believe we are the only ones saved.

    BBob,
     
  11. AAA

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    I believe in the U. Church, because GOD says that HE will save people from EVERY tribe and nation, and that means the believers are coming from a universal area..
     
  12. KJVkid

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    I believe any one that trust Christ by Faith is saved, however I don't believe there is a universal church any more then I believe in universal wives. Eph.ch.5
     
  13. tinytim

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    What convinced me in the universal church was the fact that Paul, while writing to the Corinthians included himself in the same church they were in... But he was actually a member of Antioch....

    Where you ask...

    1Co 12:13 KJV
    (13)
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Notice he said "WE".
    WE includes the person saying WE.

    So Paul is saying he belongs to the same body as the corinthians...
    And it is plain to see in this chapter that he is calling the body the church.

    It was because of this that I also switched from closed to open communion...as the belief in the local church only is a pre requisite to closed communion...


     
  14. grace56

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    Catholic in Greek mean "universal", so I think universal means the whole Christian faith.
     
  15. David Lamb

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    Always? Jesus said that He would build His church. Scripture talks of the church as Christ's bride. Ephesians 5.25-27:


    25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.

    Don't misunderstand me - I am very much a "local church" man, and cannot understand those people who refuse to join a local church, on the grounds that they are members of the universal church, and they consider that sufficient. I just cannot see that "church" is exclusively used in its local sense in the bible.
     
  16. D28guy

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    David Lamb,

    I dont see it either. The point that Tim brought up is good proof, among many others...



    This idea that when the scriptures speak of the "Church", they only mean the local assembly is a little bit...weird, to be honest.

    The Church here on earth is all of the born again people here on earth.

    Mike




     
  17. Dale-c

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    Yeah that is what I was wondering, WHICH local church will be the bride if that is all you believe in?
    Of course many do believe that only Baptist churches will make up the bride.
    What arrogance.

    Salvation, which gains one membership in THE Church, (universal) should make one seek to join a church congregation (local)
     
  18. Dale-c

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    KJVKid, so which local church is the bride of christ?
     
  19. Emily25069

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    Dale-C

    I been asking that question to Local-church-only folk FOR YEARS!!!



    and I have never gotten an answer.

    Usually just avoidance.

    One Pastor I asked said all true baptist congregations make up the bride.

    Of course he didnt have scriptural support for it though. It was just his personal belief. All other believers were "friends of the bride".. but not the bride.
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    Being computerless all week, I'm getting in late to this discussion.

    Dale, the answer to our question is, ALL local true NT churches are the bride.

    Paul, I Cor 12:27, writing to the congregation at Corinth: "Now YE are the body of Christ..."

    Acts 20:28, Paul speaking to the elders from the Ephesus congregation, over which the Holy Spirit made them overseers. to feed the Church of God (the Ephesus church), which Jesus purchased with his own blood.

    There is confusion between the church and the kingdom. What most folks call the Universal Church is actually the Kingdom.

    The Universal Church has no reason for existence, and is a no-show in carrying out any aspect of the Great Commission. It it exists, it is a colossal failure, terribly fractured and dysfunctional.
     

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