No universal church?

Universality of the null set

Every New Testament Assembly past, present and future can qualify under the above scriptures used to prove a universal assembly. Each assembly is baptized by one Spirit into One Body. The universal assembly has never assembled, carried out the commission, disciplined, communed or anything else which New Testament assemblies accomplish routinely through the power of the Holy Spirit which indwells them. Some assemblies have had their candlesticks removed. Others never had an authorized candlestick. Man-made religions have millions of followers. See I Cor. 3--the part about some who are saved, yet so as by fire--that ain't "purge-atory" folks. They have the right foundation but the wrong works, which are burned up.

One could join every assembly in the world and still be unsaved. Joining a church is a good work. We are not saved by our works.

We have the holy see espousing: universal visible.

We have protestants espousing: universal invisible.

We have NT assemblies espousing: local visible only.

They all cannot be right. They could all be wrong.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Maybe it is a misnomer...
A universal bride
A universal body
A universal kingdom...

 

How do you know that you are a member of a True New Testament Church?

Everyone thinks they are the right ones, and everyone is convinced.

Im of the type that believes you are baptized into the body of Christ, and there are times when the bible refers to the body as Christs Church.

You are right that the universal church does not carry out the same things as a local body, but that doesnt mean that every true believer does not make up the Bride of Christ.

 

Everything which exists should have a reason for its existence. Although, I am still trying to figure out why God created mosquitos.

We know why the local church exists.

What is the reason for the existence of a Universal Church?

 

good question, that.

waiting for the answer.

personally, I don't much care if the church is universal, local, or both. whether local, universal, or both, it's Jesus Christ that matters.

doctrinally, i don't believe in a universal church, but that's because i've always joined churches that don't believe in a universal church.

which is why i don't believe i am a member of THE Primitive Baptist church, or an elder of THE Primitive Baptist Church.

I know I am a baptized member of A Primitive Baptist Church, and an ordained elder of A Primitive Baptist church.

I guess my not being inclined to the Universal Church is because I personally believe a church should be in agreement with each other on its doctrines, practices, rules, and so on, after all, they are a body.

You can't even find agreement here on the board about these things among those calling themselves part of and adherents of the universal church.

 

You are right that the universal church does not carry out the same things as a local body, but that doesnt mean that every true believer does not make up the Bride of Christ.by Emily Every True Believer does make up the Bride of Christ, but the "Church" is made up of Baptised Believers.

What is the reason for the existence of a Universal Church?Tom Bulter
I don't know. What is a "universal" church? It it that thing some call "the invisible church?"

Lots of folks are caught up with tradition and use tradition as facts.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Insert the word invisible here before "church" or "wife" and see how foolish the argument is.

 

To do away with the universal church is to do away with pontiffs, cardinals, archbishops, synods, conventions and any other usurped ecclesiastical authority outside the sovereignty of the New Testament Church. The powers that be have not allowed it--probably never will. This is all part of laying the foundation for the Antichrist--who has been considered to be a pontiff by several generations since the first pontiff--circa 4th century.

A local, visible New Testament Church is a sovereign entity which answers only to the Lord Jesus Christ--the bridegroom for she prepares.

There is nothing universal about this marriage relationship--the marriage supper will be a gathering of all these assemblies.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

Reminds me of a church I visited in Hickory Hammock, FL. Little "clapboard- sided" building with graveyard "annex." Anybody been there?

We were visited in our campgrounds by members and decided to attend on Sunday. The pastor (GRHS) was a former Hell's Angel member. What a sweet Spirit! First pastor I had ever seen kneel beside the pulpit to pray!

And you know he didn't have "as many degrees as the thermometer" as Adrian Rogers used to say. But POWERFUL PREACHING? It was "book of remembrance," folks! (if you want the FULL blessing, read Mal 3:13-18, the blessing just behind the tithing part of the Bible. I often think that we at BB will open our "books of remembrance" in heaven with wonderful memories!) Can't wait to see them and y'all in heaven!

Praise God indeed, Mike!!

skypair

 

This is the belief that every true Christian is part of THE church of Christ no matter which local assembly he belongs to.Dale-C

Every True Christian is part of the Family of God. The Church is something else.

A baptist, by definition can't believe in a universal physical church or he will not really be a baptist.Dale-C

Agreed!

I am glad my wife is not "universal" or "invisible", how hard is this to understand?

 

Dale, when I asked what the purpose of the Universal Church is, I meant, what does it do?

You told me what you think it is. Now, what does it do?

I'm confused. Do you really mean to say that the "Church" is different from the Bride?

In some cases the reference to the church may be in an institutional or generic sense--the same way we speak of "the family." But the institutional or generic sense is meaningless until it takes expression in a real, specific family--or church.

 

Seems as though we are speaking different languages

Christ started HIS CHURCH. He told Peter this. He was not talking about a specific local assembly.

Christs church (or bride) is made up of baptized believers.

These baptized believers are to be a member of a local assembly.

This local assembly is to carry out the great commission, etc.

Even still, I believe that those in different local assemblies are a part of the bigger picture. They still make up the bride of Christ.

Most references in the bible are to local assemblies. I dont think that anyone is denying that.

The purpose of the universal church is to sit at the marriage supper of the lamb as Christs bride, as the bible says.


I am Barry's wife. I am nobody elses wife.
There is no need for me to be universal or invisible.

Its two different vegetables altogether. You cannot really compare the concept equally.

 

IMO, membership in the universal church/ kingdom of God/ whatever you want to call it doesn't involve water baptism at all. One enters such by being baptized by the Spirit (i.e. being born again).

One becomes a member of a local church through baptism.

 

Actually, Emily, Jesus was in fact referring to a specific assembly in Matthew 16:18. It was an assembly in existence during his earthly ministry. He built it from the core group of his 12 disciples to at least 120 prior to Pentecost.

So, if the purpose of the UC is to sit at the marriage supper of the Lamb, you acknowledge that until that time it is to remain invisible and inactive. In other words, mine, useless.

 

So far, only Emily25069 has given her view of the purpose of the Universal Church, which is to sit at the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Anybody else want to take a crack at the question. At least Emily is consistent with scripture to the extent that she sees no earthly purpose. The Scripture is also silent on that, as well.

I note that Stephanos sees the church and the kingdom as the same entity. I see the failure to distinguish between the two as the root of all our differences.

One other question: Who are the officers of the UC? The elders, deacons, pastors, etc?

 

I see a distinction between the local church and the kingdom. Honestly, I do not think much about the universal church. I know that there is a major qualitative difference between the usage of the term "church" in a local and in a universal sense.

Here's where I get off-the-wall, but bear with me.

IMO, the local church is a local, concrete "type" of the spiritual universal church.

The local church (a gathered body of believers) is, to use the words of Heb. 8:5, offered in a different context, "a copy and shadow of the heavenly things" (ESV). The gathering of all believers as one body in heaven is the ultimate goal and the highest corporate experience. In the present time, it is of little note. The concept of the universal church has no practical earthly effect, except perhaps as a way to remind local churches of their spiritual kinship and eventual "merging" in heaven.

The concept of the universal church, IMO, is more an eschatological issue than anything else. Who are its officers? Only one...Jesus Christ.

 

I'll need to think about this idea, but you may be onto something, there.