Noah's Ark - Literal or what?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by chadman, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. chadman

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    A little off the normal beaten path here, and this is not meant as some flame starter although sure to provide some fireworks.

    Regarding the literal story of Noa's Ark. You know I am just curious how various folks here view the literallness of the story. There are a lot of logistical details we could all discuss, but for now, just curious as to how most here view the story.

    There should be varying views within each denomination I would think...ie, some Baptists don't see this identical, some Catholics the same, etc, etc.

    Oh, and my appologies if this has been hashed around here before, I haven't seen it, but I have not posted in a while. Thanks.
     
  2. Monergist

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    There was a literal man named Noah who received and obeyed a literal order from God to build a literal boat called an ark to save himself, his family, and at least a pair of each kind of animal from a literal judgment that God was pouring out on literally the whole world in the form of a literal flood...

    ...Just like Genesis records. ;)
     
  3. Marcia

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    The fact that God gives us such details as to the size of the ark and other details about the animals, and that it is given as a literal narrative, all support a view of it as a literal account. That is what I believe.
     
  4. prophecynut

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    Your board name reminds me of the 2000 election, are you from Florida?

    Noah's Ark is literal, 120 years was needed to build it. The petrified remains were found near the Turkish Iranian border in the '80s.
     
  5. chadman

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    I am from Dallas TX. Ahhh, now I get the election reference, lol. Nope, just happen to have Chad for a name.

    That's cool. Do you happen to know who found it, and what media published these findings? I mean, that has to be very well known at this point 25 yrs later. I have not checked all of it out frankly, but I know there are doubters.

    One intesting question about the flood, not the ark, is once landed, how did all the species get from the European continent to all the other continents and thousands of islands all over the rest of the world? To me that is confounding.

    I hope you guys don't take me for a heretic for asking simple questions. Questions like this are NOT allowed in a lot of Churches I have been to. They write you off as lost or faithless, and move on. A glass wall if you will.
     
  6. TexasSky

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    Chad,

    I read about it in several different magazines years ago including Reader's Digest, and some science magazine like "Scientific American."

    I can't recall who found it, but I do remember they weren't looking for it when they found it. It was kind of "stumbled on by accident," then the scientists went back with satellites. Turkey closed it though. They won't let people in to look at it.

    It is supposedly now petrified and sitting on top of a mountain mostly buried in snow.

    [ July 12, 2005, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: TexasSky ]
     
  7. TexasSky

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    I think that there is a reason the details of the ark are recorded, ergo, I think it must be literal. I know the bible, at times, records things "generally," but whenever it has gotten specific, history has proven it correct. (The temple for instance.)

    Therefore, I believe that Ark was quite literally the way the bible says. As to "2 animals" and "7 animals" and the size of the ark. I have never seen any full accounting of what animals existed in those days, their size, etc. I don't see that the bible said the creatures had to be "full grown" either. I also don't think it necessarily says, "two of every breed of....". So, I assume if it says, "two dogs," it meant two healthy puppies, not "2 full grown grey hounds, and 2 full grown shelties, and 2 full grown bull dogs." Two chickens could be 2 chicks, or even 2 fertilized eggs.

    I've also really, really looked at the detractor's stories and I have a lot of problems with them. First - they seem, to me, to contradict each other. They tell us if the polar ice-caps melt we'll all drown, but when they talk about the flood, they only talk about the rain falling. They don't talk about how, as the water on the continents rises the ice caps will begin to melt or how the ocean level rising above sea level will merge with the rain water in the rivers. They just skip over all those scientific parts.

    As to how the animals scatter. I take it for granted that a God who can cause the flooding of the entire earth, and who can lead animals to the one man He wants to save them, and can protect that man from a massive flood - can take care of scattering His creations.

    I also see "ways of nature" that can take care of it. Again - who says we're talking about full grown anythings? We know that a lot of animals spread because of human transportation. We know that tornados and hurricanes can pick up and drop living creatures in locations miles away. We know the contienents were connected at various times in the history of the world. We know that large birds of prey sometimes pick up the young of other species and carry them far away.

    All of these things are just "non issues" to me.

    The most astounding, hard to believe miracle of the whole bible is resurrection. Yet, I ~know~, literally, ~know~ that my redeemer liveth. As one song says, "He walks with me and He talks with me." I'm more certain of Christ living today than I am that any of you exist.

    If God can perform the miracle of Christ - Noah's Ark is a piece of cake for Him.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    Amen!

    This is the surprise to many today - the idea that Genesis 1-2 is "true" AND that Genesis 6-8 is "true".

    They "sometimes" can be convinced that Genesis 3 is true (the fall of man) but they are "Challenged" as to how that is "literally true" if Genesis 1-2 is not actually true.

    Oh yes - and Genesis 4-5 is also "true" long lived generations of mankind pre-flood!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. ChurchBoy

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    Noah's Ark has NOT been found. We are not going to bring up Ron Wyatt are we? Several expeditions to Mt. Ararat have been conducted and have found nothing as of yet. If the Ark were truely dicoverd it would be the greatest archeological discovery in human history! It would be all over the news, probably with 24 hours news coverage for days.

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0419arkdiscovery.asp

    http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i4/report.asp
     
  10. chadman

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    How true that statement is. It would be the greatest discovery of all time at this point in history. I wish these hoaxters would give it up.

    TexasSky said:
    Yes, I take it for granted God can do anything He pleases, but we cannot ignore what we know and see. The question is not one of whether God can do something, but rather, is the story related to us, literal in every detail, or even meant to be. As devil's advocate, anyone of us will admit that we don't take everything literally in the Bible.

    Not sure how we spread all those animals over the entire earth, continent by continent. Tonadoes and Hurricanes? C'mon man, think about that one a while. How long is an animal going to stay alive in a tornado that is traveling at 50 mph, not to mention over the ocean to cross a contient...this one is a little out of the question.

    As to continents being connected at one time. Good point, but based on our Fundamentist chronology, which ignores a lot of modern science, how do we age that to match our timeline of the flood. It does not match the metrics of current continental movement on a timeline with the dating of Noah's ark. In other words, at the rate the continents are moving apart today, it dates thing older than we date Noah's Ark. By a LOT. I am not sure.

    Non issues? Then why believe any of them?

    Of course Christ is ressurected. You make it seem as if the story of Noah's Ark was somehow not literal, that that would diminish the truth of the Gospel, or invalidate the Bible. No way man. At most, it would only imply that the literary style of the Bible was not always literal.
     
  11. prophecynut

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    Ron Wyatt is for real, he is not a fraud. Recently his wife Mary published the book 'The Boat-Shaped Object on Doomsday Mountain,' which may be bought from their web site www.wyattmuseum.com I have the book, it gives the history of Ron's search for Noah's Ark, it is factual and truthful, Ron absolutely did locate the Ark.

    Another book for the skeptics is 'The Exodus Case' by Dr. Lennart Moller that validates Ron Wyatt's discovery of the Exodus route, where the Hebrews camped for forty years, the rock Moses struck to obtain water, the Red Sea crossing, Mount Sinai and the location of Sodom and Gomorrah. The book is expensive but well worth it. You will not be able to deny Ron Wyatt anymore if you had this book, his works are well documented.

    http://www.leocordia.com/exodus/

    The most significant discovery was the Ark of the Covenant by Ron Wyatt, it definitely will be brought up from its chamber underneath the Temple Mount and placed in the third temple. I strongly anticipate traveling to Israel to locate the tunnel that leads to the chamber and participating in its recovery.

    [ July 12, 2005, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: prophecynut ]
     
  12. chadman

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    Well I did check out some of his claims, and it appears Christians that have checked him out are left pretty dissapointed.

    I checked the website posted earlier, and found this:

    7. The formation is even crosscut by an obvious layer of fossil-bearing (Flood deposited) limestone; this alone eliminates any possibility that it is what Wyatt et al claim. The Wyatt claims appear to have misled some sincere Christians into repeating them. Return to text.
    8. D.F. Fasold, ‘Bogus “Noah’s Ark” from Turkey exposed as a common geologic structure,’ Journal of Geoscience Education 44:439–444, 1996. Return to text.
    9 See interview with Dr John Baumgardner, Creation 19(3):40–43, 1997. Several other creationists and organizations have also been vilified, subtly or otherwise, after speaking the truth about this matter. Return to text.
     
  13. TexasSky

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    George Hagopian has first hand knowledge of the ark. As a young child, he walked along the Ark's planks with his uncle. The following excerpt is from Charles Berlitz, The Lost Ship of Noah , which details the fascinating story.

    "He was eight years old, Hagopian said, and it was in the year 1908 [note: another account says the year was 1905 and Hagopian was 10 years old] when his uncle took him up Ararat, past Ahora Gorge, passing the grave of St. Jacob on the way. As the mountain grew more precipitous his uncle carried him on his shoulders until they came to something that looked like a great ship located on a rock ledge over a cliff and partially covered by snow. It had flat openings like windows along the top and a hole in the roof. Hagopian had first thought it was a house made of stone but when his uncle showed him the outline of planks and told him it was made of wood he realized it was the Ark, just like the other people had described it to him. His uncle boosted him up from a rock pile to reach the Ark roof telling him not to be afraid, "because it is a holy ship ..." (and) "the animals and people are not here now. They have all gone away." Hagopian climbed on the roof and knelt down and kissed the surface of the roof which was flat and easy to stand on.
    -----
    Lieutenant Roskovitsky
    In the summer of 1916, during the thaw, Lieutenant Roskovitsky of the Russian Imperial Air Force noticed a half-frozen lake on the shelf or gully on the side of Mount Ararat while flying high-altitude test to observe Turkish troop movements. As they flew nearer to the lake, he saw a half submerged hull of some sort of ship. He noticed two stubby masts and a flat catwalk along the top.
    ----------------------
    From the New Eden Magazine, California, 1939): "We flew down as close as safety permitted and took several circles around it. We were surprised when we got close to it, at the immense size of the thing, for it was as long as a city block, and would compare very favorably in size to the modern battleships of today. It was grounded on the shore of the lake, with one-fourth underwater. It had been partly dismantled on one side near the front, and on the other side there was a great doorway nearly twenty feet square, but with the other door gone. This seemed quite out of proportion, as even today, ships seldom have doors even half that large ...."

    He then told his captain who wanted to be flown over the site. The captain stated that it was Noah's Ark and explained the reason for its survival as "frozen up for nine of ten months of the year, it couldn't rot, and has been in cold storage, as it were, all this time .... "

    The captain forwarded a report back to St. Petersburg resulting in orders from the Tsar to send two engineering companies up the mountain. One group of fifty men attacked one side, and the other group of one hundred men attacked the big mountain from the other side. Two weeks of hard work were required to chop out a trail along the cliffs of the lower part of the mountain, and it was nearly a month before the Ark was reached. Complete measurements were taken, and plans drawn of it, as well as many photographs, all of which were sent to the Tsar.

    From the magazine article: "The Ark was found to contain hundreds of small rooms, and some rooms that were very large, with high ceilings. The unusually large rooms had a fence of great timbers across them, some of which were two feet thick, as if designed to hold beasts ten times the size of elephants. Other rooms were also lined with tiers of cages, somewhat like what one sees today at a poultry show, only instead of chicken wire, they had rows of small iron bars along the front. Everything was heavily painted with a waxlike paint resembling shellac, and the workmanship of the craft showed all the signs of a high type of civilization. The wood used throughout was oleander, which belongs to the cypress family and never rots; which of course, coupled with the fact of its being frozen most of the time, accounted for its perfect preservation."
    --------------------
    Captain Schwinghammer
    In late spring or summer of 1960, pilot from the 428th Tactical Flight Squadron based in Adana, Turkey were on routine observation flights.
    Captain Gregor Schwinghammer and another pilot had flown around Mount Ararat with a Turkish liaison officer when they saw "an enormous boxcar or rectangular barge visible in a gully high on the mountain." He states that "... the Ark we saw was about 4000 feet from the top (13000 feet altitude) on the southeast slope, perhaps four o'clock from due north."
    -------------------
    Wyatt/Fasold
    In 1959, the Turkish Air Force was conducting an aerial survey of the Ararat region. Seventeen miles south of Mount Ararat's peak, on the lower slopes (6300 feet), a photograph was taken by Lieutenant A. Kurtis revealing the outline of a ship. Its dimensions were later found to be 500 by 150 feet and its protruding height, 45 feet. (Biblical dimensions are 450 by 75 feet and 45 feet in height.)
    In 1960, dynamite charges were placed on the wall of the Buried Ark and exploded by the Turkish army. No inner chambers or clear evidence of beams were discovered. Bits of decayed wood were found in the remaining debris.

    In 1984, Ron Wyatt smuggled 8.6 pounds of stones, sand and earth from the Buried Ark to New York for exhibition. The Turkish government was outraged over his lack of consideration for their national customs and regulations. This incident interrupted other expeditions on the mountain.

    In 1985, Wyatt returned with David Fasold and CAT scanned the Buried Ark. They found traceable lines of iron which crisscrossed the mound at equal intervals. Ron Wyatt was immediately convinced that the Ark had been found.

    ------------------
    Dr. Arslan says, "I believe enough people have seen it (the Ark) within the last fifty or sixty years to establish the truth of the legend. It will probably be found right where it is supposed to be - between 14,000 and 15,000 feet up, following the right-hand side of Ahora Gorge right up to the front of Parrot Glacier. There is a huge flat plateau there, as big as a football field, a hundred yards deep in ice. This is where, during melting periods, the Ark has been seen and pieces of it have been taken away, and this is where the remains of the Ark will be found."

    http://www.arkdiscovery.com/317nark.jpg
     
  14. chadman

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    Does it happen to bug anyone other than me, that a Christian Organization spent time and dollars to corraborate Wyatt's evidence and found it false and misleading? Why would Christians not be terribly happy to embrace something like this discovery?

    I think becuase the minute we all did, the world would scrutinize it, and find out the facts, and we Christians would be embarrased once again on this topic.
     
  15. chadman

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    I would personally love nothing more than someone to find and validate Noah's Ark with real proof.

    However, having grown up reading Chick publications (tracts and magazines) like encyclopedias, my world was rocked when I started checking facts out. I found, people can and will write anything they please for their own purposes. And many more will believe whatever they read.
     
  16. TexasSky

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    Chad,

    I used a picture from Wyatt, but the information I posted isn't from Wyatt.
     
  17. ChurchBoy

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    The Ark of the Covenant has NOT been found. Wyatt's claims are bogus:

    From AIG:

    Ron Wyatt has claimed, among other things, to have discovered the following:

    1. The Ark of the Covenant.

    2. Chariot wheels and other relics from Pharaoh’s drowned army at the bottom of the Red Sea.

    3. The real Sodom and Gomorrah, with building outlines still standing as piles of sulfur-fried ash.

    4. Noah’s Ark.

    5. The real Mt Sinai

    6. The rock at Horeb.

    7. The true site of Korah’s earthquake.

    8. Noah’s house, and the graves of Mr and Mrs Noah, together with millions worth of her jewelry (allegedly then stolen from Wyatt).

    9. The real site of the crucifixion, apparently above the cave containing the Ark of the Covenant, so that Christ’s blood would drip on to the Mercy Seat.

    10. An actual sample of Christ’s blood, with chromosomes allegedly still visible under the microscope, showing that there was no human father. Placed in growth medium, the cells began dividing, says Ron.

    11. The tablets of the Ten Commandments, bound by golden hinges.

    Now if even half of these claims were true it would make Ron Wyatt an extraordinary man for sure.

    source: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v21/i2/ark.asp#Sidebar3
     
  18. Rachel

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    [​IMG] I agree. :cool:
     
  19. TexasSky

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    Someone wrote: "but we cannot ignore what we know and see. "

    Every single Christian does that every single day. Faith requires ignoring "what we see," and realizing that we really don't know.

    Think about it. What scientific evidence is there to support that a man who died on the cross, stayed in a tomb 3 days, actually returned in 3 days, having conquered death?

    You believe in Christ don't you?
    Why can't you believe in the miracles God performed?

    When did you decide God had to fit into man's defintion of "how the world works?"
     

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