Not all born-again Christians make it through the sanctification process!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Born-again Christians should realize John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, etc. are out of context with the NT.
    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,
    that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:16)

    The verb “pisteuo” is used 98 times in John, and his usage is complex.
    In the vast majority of instances, John’s usage of “pisteuo” implies an authentic,
    active, abiding belief in Jesus … However, there are other instances when
    “pisteuo” is used in a superficial, transitory manner, as shown in these passages:
    John 2:23-25, John 6:66, John 8:31-47, John 15:1-11 , etc.
    Many who “believe” (pisteuo), eventually reject Jesus and are not truly disciples!
    So, “believes in” above must mean: depends on, trusts, obeys … all the way to salvation.


    I much prefer to trust the dozens of other passages, which warn believers about
    falling away from the salvation process, i.e. the sanctification process.


    The main reason for the Holy Spirit being inside of born-again Christians
    is to help them walk in the Spirit (and not in the flesh) and overcome sin.
    But God will not violate their free will … they must choose to
    co-operate with the Holy Spirit during the sanctification process!

    This is the reason for all of these MANY WARNINGS in the NT.


    Matt 7:13-14 • Difficult is the narrow way leading to eternal life, and few find it.
    Matt 7:21-23 • Those who do the will of Father God shall enter the kingdom of heaven.
    Matt 10:39 • He who loses his old sinful life for Jesus sake will find eternal life.
    Matt 16:24-26 • Deny (lose) your old sinful life and follow Jesus to find eternal life.
    Mark 11:25-26 • If you do not forgive everyone, Father God will not forgive your sins.
    John 3:36 • Believe what Jesus says, or incur God’s wrath and lose eternal life.
    John 12:25 • He who hates his life in this world will keep his life for eternity.
    Rom 2:7-9 • Wrath to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth.
    Rom 8:13 • Follow the Spirit and put to death the works of the flesh to gain eternal life.
    Rom 8:14 • As many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
    1 Cor 6:9-10 • People committing these sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    1 Cor 9:27 • Paul disciplined his body into subjection so he should not be disqualified.
    1 Cor 13:5 • Examine yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.
    1 Cor 15:2 • You are saved, if you hold fast to the word, unless you believed in vain.
    2 Cor 7:10 • Godly sorrow leads Christians to repent, leading to salvation.
    Gal 5:19-21 • Believers who practice such sins will not inherit the kingdom of God.
    Gal 5:24 • Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    Gal 6:7-8 • Sowing to the flesh reaps corruption; sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.
    Eph 5:3-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
    Eph 5:25-27 • Jesus gave Himself for a Church which will be holy and without blemish.
    Phil 2:12-13 • Work out your salvation with fear and trembling (for God is working in you).
    Col 1:21-23 • Jesus reconciles those who continue in faith, and who hope in the gospel.
    Col 3:5-6 • Disobedient believers committing such sins will incur the wrath of God.
    1 Thes 5:8 • Put on the helmet of the hope of salvation.
    1 Tim 5:11-12 • Some believers are condemed because they have cast off their first faith.
    Heb 2:1-4 • How shall we escape, if we drift away and neglect so great a salvation?
    Heb 3:8,15 • Do not harden your hearts as in the OT rebellion in the wilderness.
    Heb 3:11 • God swore in His wrath that the disobedient Jews would not enter His rest.
    Heb 3:12 • Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God.
    Heb 3:14 • Partakers of Christ hold the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end.
    Heb 3:17-19 • Those who sinned died in the wilderness, not entering in due to unbelief.
    Heb 3:18-19 • It is unbelief that causes disobedience.
    Heb 4:1 • Let us fear lest any of us seems to have come short of entering His rest.
    Heb 4:3 • About the disobedient, God swore in His wrath, “They shall not enter My rest.”
    Heb 4:6 • God’s chosen people did not enter in because of disobedience.
    Heb 4:11 • Beware, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.
    Heb 6:4-8 • Those partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.
    Heb 10:26-27 • Believers who sin willfully can expect God’s fiery judgment.
    Heb 10:29-31 • God will fearfully avenge believers who insult the Spirit of grace.
    Heb 10:36-39 • Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.
    Heb 12:14 • Pursue holiness, without which no one will see the Lord.
    1 Pet 1:8-9 • Believing, you will receive the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
    2 Pet 1:10-11 • Be diligent to make your call and election sure, gaining the kingdom.
    2 Pet 2:20-22 • A believer who returns to his sins is worse off than he was before.
    1 Jn 2:3-5 • We are sure that we know God, if we keep His commandments.
    Rev 2-3 • All 7 churches are warned to repent and be overcomers to be: given the crown of life,
    clothed in white garments, a pillar in the temple of God, not hurt by the second death, etc.
    Rev 21:7-8 • People committing these sins will go into the lake of fire (the second death).
    Rev 21:27 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.
    Rev 22:14-15 • People committing these sins will not enter the New Jerusalem.
     
  2. evangelist-7

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    Since the truth presented in the OP is so popular, I will add some details ...

    In the OT, God gave His chosen people EVERY advantage to be successful.
    But, the problem was ...
    He also gave them THE LAW, which as it turned out, was impossible for them to follow!
    They had NO Holy Spirit to help them (He's called "the Helper" in the NJKV).

    Note: all of this was done to PROVE to everyone that man is UNABLE to satisfy God
    (without the Holy Spirit inside).

    HEADS UP NOW ...

    Even though God knew 'twas impossible for them to follow THE LAW,
    He gave it to them, and they DISOBEYED it ...
    ... and they were left scattered all over the desert floor. Sorry to be so graphic!

    Now Paul comes along in Hebrews 3 & 4, WARNING US to not end up like these Israelites.

    And then he hits us up with this … concerning born-again Christians ...

    Hebrews 10:
    28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy
    on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
    29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy
    who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant
    by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know Him who said,“Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.
    And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    .
     
  3. Amy.G

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    The book of Hebrews is called Hebrews because.....it's written to Jews!
    Christians at that time were severely persecuted and many Jews were going back to Judaism rather than face death by becoming a Christian. It's not written to born again Christians.
     
  4. evangelist-7

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    IMO, the entire book was also written to BAC ... are you one?

    Perhaps, you can explain ... Who was this? ... he was sanctified by the blood of the covenant

    An unconverted Jew? ... A Jew who was only considering Christianity?

    Sanctified (past tense) refers to positional (set apart) sanctification for further refinement, i.e. unto holiness/perfection.

    Blessings!

    P.S. your period is in the wrong place (hope DHK won't take this the wrong way and ban me for 6 months).
    Hey, let's have a period hunt.

    .
     
    #4 evangelist-7, Apr 15, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 15, 2013
  5. Yeshua1

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    well. here is god's take on the matter!

    from stumbling and to present you hblameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to ithe only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord,jbe glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

    So God promises to be able to keep ALL saved to the end, I would take his reasoning over yours!
     
  6. evangelist-7

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    Guess the Baptist boys have given up on their sanctification!

    .
     
  7. padredurand

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    How could the very words of Jesus Christ be 'out of context' with the New Testament? The Word out of context with the Word?
    Depends on who you think does the saving. If you think your (or my) ability to abide is the determining factor in a person's salvation then have at it. I am no Calvinist but I have no trouble believing that we are saved by the Grace of God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
    Ephesians 2:4-7 NAS77
    4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus,
    7 in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.​

    God didn't save me so I could boast about my ability to hold on. He saved me through "the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus."
    Make up your mind. Do people fall away from getting saved or getting sanctified? I do not see anywhere in Scripture where justification is progressive. Sanctification on the other hand is a work of the Holy Spirit within the life of a justified person.
    Philippians 2:12-13 NAS77
    12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
    13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.​

    That's God's work in our Christian life. Folks that try to work it out on their own usually fail. That's what happens when folk try religion instead of experience the relationship initiated, activated and fulfilled by Grace.
    Romans 10:11 NAS77
    11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."​

    You have parsed so many of these verses that they become meaningless to the conversation. For example:
    What about the parts you parsed?

    Philippians 2:12-13 NAS77
    12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;
    13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

    What can we learn from the trimmings? Paul considered the Philippians to be beloved. Paul commended them for the integrity of their walk by OBEYING regardless of whether he was with them or not. Paul instructed that it was God working out His will for HIS good pleasure in their lives. These were not feeble people hoping they could act Christian enough to make it to Heaven. They were marching to Zion not falling away.
     
  8. Earth Wind and Fire

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    so in other words, Hebrews 13:17

    King James Version (KJV)

    17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.


    Not binding to NT Christians?
     
  9. Yeshua1

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    No, rather its that we believe that God will keep those whom he has saved, and that NONE will be lost who have their hope in Him!

    guess we will just to keep going down the road, barely making it, unlike those saints who claim the second Act of grace!
     
  10. evangelist-7

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    el padre,

    Born-again Christians should realize John 3:16, 3:36, 5:24, etc. are out of context with the NT.
    Yes, this was a poor choice of words.
    I meant to say that some verses do not seem to agree with the Scriptures as a whole.

    So, “believes in” above must mean: depends on, trusts, obeys … all the way to salvation.
    You have heard it said that if you truly believe, you will obey the commandments, etc.

    IMO, salvation also depends on obedience and co-operating with the Holy Spirit.

    Great … Philippians 2:12-13
    “... work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you”

    What most don't understand is the co-operative effort required! It is throughout the entire Bible.

    And thanks for the Phil 2 curtain call … do we clap now or what?

    .
     
  11. padredurand

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    Do you view justification and sanctification as one and the same or as two distinct acts in the life of a believer?
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    Is he charasmatic catholic, for this theolgy is JUST how they view what it mewans to get saved!
     
  13. evangelist-7

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    IMO, the born-again believer can throw away, reject, fall way from, etc.
    whatever doctrines/terms you like to rely on for your salvation.

    I used to hear and believe that ...
    ALL of those MANY dozens of WARNING verses were to PUSH believers to gain greater rewards,
    such as standing, having a chair, or even having a small throne ... closer to God's Throne.

    I just don't hear those reasons anywhere any more! ... And I have no idea why!

    But, if you reject my doctrine of necessary sanctification unto holiness,
    they are the only reasonable excuse for da red.

    .
     
  14. Yeshua1

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    what is you r mesage though to us? that if one is not fully sauctified in this life, they will not get eternal life in the next?
     
  15. BobRyan

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    1John 2 - John says that the one who claims to know and love Christ and yet does not keep His commandments - is lying.

    Don't you think that is a strong statement for John to use?

    I don't see a good way to down size it.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    the Commandment is to love the Lord your god will all your hreart/mind /soul, and to love others as yourself..

    can you honestly say that you have done either one to Gods perfect standards?

    We walk in the Holy spirit, as being already saved and filled with the HS, and THAT is the ticket to sauntification, not striving and trying by your own efforst and willpower to keep the law!
     
  17. evangelist-7

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    Yes, and all liars do NOT enter into salvation ... many verses,
    but my personal favs are Prov 6:16-19, Rev 21:8, Rev 22:15.

    The Prov 6 talks of 7 things that are an abomination to God ... and 2 of the 7 concern lying.

    .
     
    #17 evangelist-7, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2013
  18. Yeshua1

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    Do you lie by claiming to be able to keep all of them as well as God demands for them to be kept though?
     
  19. evangelist-7

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    1 John 1:
    8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
    9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins
    and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

    1 John 2:
    3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
    4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar,
    and the truth is not in him.
    5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him.
    By this we know that we are in Him.


    It's the obedience to God and the co-operating with God
    that completes our sanctification process unto holiness and perfection.

    One should not need to be Spirit-filled to be able to read and understand the basics.

    .
     
  20. Yeshua1

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    Its the work of the HS in and tru us to conform us into the image of chrsit, we already have the law in our hearts being saved, whatpart of the law do you keep, how much do you keep it?

    Can a Christian get unsaved by not keeping enough of it long enough, right enough?
     

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