"Not as pleasing men, but God"

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Aug 8, 2003.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    "But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts."

    Having been on the internet religious discussion circuit for about 4 years now, I have experienced first hand and repeatedly the hatred and invective that is directed toward those who love the Lord enough to stand by His words and hold up His words before the eyes of evil men.

    I cannot speak for anyone but myself. But speaking for myself I say that no matter how many times you call me a Pharisee, a fundamentalist, an ignoramus, a liar, or a bigot; no matter how many times you tell me I don't have love, don't love children, am mean, hateful, or unkind; no matter how much mean spirit, venom, accusation, or scorn you throw at me......

    .....I will, by the grace of God, never give one inch of ground to those who speak against the Lord, His word, and His churches. I do not speak to please anyone but God and I do so out of love for both God and man.

    I don't care if you believe this or not.

    I don't care if you like me or not.

    I don't care what you think about me.

    I will not stand silent while blasphemers and infidels slander His holy name. I will not stand silent while buffoons make a mockery of God's worship.

    I am not deceived by infidels simply because they paint the word "Baptist" on their church sign or drop the blessed name of Jesus from their poisioned lips.

    I am not one bit intimidated by infidels and heretics. I am fully capable of using the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God to assail any and all enemies of the Lord and His truth.

    I say none of this out of pride, but simply to put the infidels, heretics, and liberal snakes on notice that as long as I am alive and in my right mind there will be at least one man in this world who will take every opporunity afforded me by God to oppose the enemies of truth and to uphold the words of Christ.

    And I plead with those of you who know the truth to stand up and fight like men for your families, your churches, and the honor of your Lord.

    One more thing: I'm not one bit flattered, impressed, or blessed when I speak the truth and someone sends me a PRIVATE message telling me how much they appreciate what I say (which has happened in almost every forum I've ever been in, this one not excepted).

    If you appreciate the Lord and His truth then show your appreciation to the Lord by making a PUBLIC statement of what you believe.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. timothy 1769

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    amen brother mark, i'm often too wishy-washy when it comes to standing for the lord. thank you for the rebuke and encouragement.
     
  3. ScottEmerson

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    I believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, that he was born of a virgin and lived a sinless life. He gave his life for all mankind and rose again 3 days later. Through the conviction of the Spirit, I chose to place Him as Lord of my life.

    As a result of this, I am able to truly love God and love man. I love my brothers in Christ, and I earnestly seek the salvation of those who do not know Him. I believe that the greatest example of our salvation is in our love for others, and I am extremely worried when legalists and Pharisees show an absence of love for what they call "infidels", "heathens" and liberal snakes. On the other hand, I love homosexuals, adulterers, cheaters, murderers, and all sinners, because God loves them. I believe that Paul when he wrote, "So you once were also," and realize that I was just as bad as them. Therefore, I love them with the love of the Lord and earnest share the gospel message with them. To show hatred or separation from them is to disobey the commandments of Jesus Christ.

    I am convinced that God has not called me to judge any man or proclaim that a person is not saved - that is, indeed, for Him to do. For those Christians who I believe are in error, I lovingly approach them with the Word in hand, and show them their errors. If they reject me, I leave it in God's hands.

    I believe that God has called us to worship Him in spirit and truth - and that this worship can take many different forms. God has given us Christian freedom, but he has also given us rules to live our lives by - the main two being "Love God" and "Love your neighbors." If these two are followed, every other command will fall into place.

    I believe that hyper-fundamentalists are destroying the church more than liberals are. I believe that the spirit of hatred, disdain, and intolerance that is portrayed on this board by a select few pushes people away from a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ - I believe this because of personal experience in talking to many, many people.

    I believe that God has called me to a special ministry, and my life is committed to following that call. I have a vision for today's church, that we will all be willing to invest our lives in the world that is out there - to share the love of God with all men, women, and children. I also believe that our church should be united. Calling other Christians "infidels" or "blasphemers" because of a doctrinal difference is akin to cursing out one's brother, and I have too much respect for the Church that God has established to do that. I wish that others would share that respect.
     
  4. KenH

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    I guess this is supposed to make the entire non-ultra-conservative Christian world shake in its collective boots? :cool:
     
  5. Pete Richert

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    Mark,

    I appreciate your ethusiasm though I am not sure I fully understand. You seem to responding to other threads or such. Could you give some examples of things you stand for that others don't or things you stand for that others have cast hatred on you?

    Thanks,
    Pete
     
  6. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769
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    Originally posted by Pete Richert:
    that others have cast hatred on you?

    heh, i first read that as castrated....
     
  7. Watchman

    Watchman
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    Mark:
    I think we find ourselves in agreement. We cannot comprimise sound doctrine to please men. God does not call us to be politically correct. But I too am curious about specific things that have provoked your post.
    Scott: That Jesus loves us sinners is not in dispute. However, He also said, "Go and sin no more." It is not fundamentalism that is doing great harm to the church and the cause of Christ, but liberalism and creeping compromise.
     
  8. Artimaeus

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    Joshua 24:14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served

    Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve;

    Joshua 24:18 And the LORD drave out from before us all the people

    Joshua 24:20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you

    Joshua 24:23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel .

    I Pet 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

    Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

    A liberal thinks they can love God and NOT hate evil. If God is so opposed to evil, wouldn't it be a good idea to be able to accurately discern what evil is?
     
  9. ScottEmerson

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    Ask a non-Christian why he doesn't attend church. Nine out of ten will be an admonition about the judgmentalism of so-called "Christians."

    Why are non-Christians so angry and stand-offish from the church? Which segment of the Christian comminity is dogmatic and closed-minded? Which ones are the ones who have a hard time showing love?

    The fundamentalists, and those who proclaim Christ with their lips, but spend their lives tellign non-Christians just how evil they are, showing them hate and intolerance instead of the love which Christ commanded. That, to me, is a crying shame.
     
  10. Pastor Larry

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    Mark,

    There are a lot of us who love God and are serving him faithfully. There are a lot of us who take firm stands for truth and let the chips fall where they may. The main difference is that we try to take our stands in a Christlike spirit. There is no need for a tactless or rude presentation of your beliefs. Many of your recent postings have bordered on a violation of Eph 4:15 and some have outright crossed that line. The servant of the Lord is to be gentle, with patience helping those who disagree, so that the Lord might lead them to repentance. You are not the only one who loves God. Don't get an Elijah complex about it.
     
  11. Helen

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    Mark and all,

    I think it is fair to say that on the creation-evolution issue (I'm an ignorant, deceived, deceiving, biased, word-twisting etc. etc. YEC), my stand regarding cults (I'm bigoted, deceived, deceiving, word-twisting, biased, and a religious nut), my stand against Calvinism (I don't understand the Bible, I'm insulting God, I'm ignorant, deceiving, deceived and maybe not even saved...) along with being a moderator for somewhere around five or six years now, it is fair to say I have received my share of invectives.

    However I have learned something in all that time. My attitude gets people's attention more than my words. If you are being criticized for your attitude, maybe it is time to be more careful about that.

    Watch Barnabas. I don't know anyone who has received more cruel comments from disgruntled posters than he has at times, but you will never see him being rude or presumptuous. I have learned a lot from him. Attitude is extremely important in trying to get your point across.

    When you say:
    I don't care if you believe this or not.

    I don't care if you like me or not.

    I don't care what you think about me.


    You are pushing people away, not inviting them to the truth that you know. People are a lot more fragile than you might think. I say this from 55 years of experience now and having hurt many people quite unintentionally in my life. The people I hurt or insult are NOT going to come to me with questions looking for answers! And, honestly, the answers mean nothing until someone starts asking questions. If you respond with the defensiveness that the people in the world respond to, why should they ask you any questions about why you are different? You aren't different!

    To Watchman: the episode in John regarding the woman caught in adultery is not in the earliest reliable manuscripts. If the story is true, the 'go and sin no more' had to do specifically with adultery and the woman involved. We have never been told in the Bible to 'sin no more.' We have been given hearts that do not want to sin when we are born again, but, as John says in his first epistle, if anyone says he does not sin, the truth is not in him!

    HomeBound: We have a place for testimonials down in the praise forum. Please use it. Mostly women use it now, and it was intended for everyone.
     
  12. gb93433

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    A statement of what I believe is that I believe that the majority of Christians have been taught to think that statements are really what they believe. James says otherwise. James contrasts a genuine saving faith with a creedal faith. I think most of the statements are merely intellectual and not real genuine belief. Because if people practiced what they said they believed they would be able to name a number of people who are living for Christ because of their life.

    John said, "I have no greater joy than this, to hear of my children walking in the truth."

    We don't have children walking in truth just by sharing intellectual belief only. The demons believe and shudder. We have people who follow Christ because of those who give the example and teach them to walk by faith.
     
  13. Chet

    Chet
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    Originally quoted by Mark Osgatharp
    Paul continues...

    As apostles of Christ we could have been a burden to you, but we were gentle among you, like a mother caring for her little children. We loved you so much that we were delighted to share with you not only the gospel of God but our lives as well, because you had become so dear to us.
    1 Thess 2:6-8

    Consider also:

    Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,
    1 Peter 3:15
     
  14. Mark Osgatharp

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    Chet,

    There is a time for a soft answer and there is a time for rebuke. Consider these:

    "Then Saul, (who is also called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, and said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord."

    And,

    "But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of the Lord may be purchased with money. Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is nor right in the sight of God. Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness and bond of iniquity."

    And,

    "We were bold in our God to speak unto you the gospel of God with much contention."

    And,

    "Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  15. Tim

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    If we only are on guard for Satan's assaults from the left, we become suceptible to his assaults from the right, and vice-versa.

    Liberals typically love mercy at the expense of truth. Ultra-conservatives typically love truth at the expense of mercy. But the scriptures bind the two together and thus give us the proper model for a Christ-like life.

    "Mercy and truth are met together, righteousness and peace have kissed each other" (Psalm 85:10).

    It's all about maintaining that Biblical balance.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  16. Watchman

    Watchman
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    Helen:
    I knew it! I knew when I quoted from one of the most contested passages in the KJV someone here would pick it up. I am not being critical or patronizing, I salute you on this. I am not KJVO, but I do enjoy this version. Anyway, to the topic:
    You said, "We have never been told in the Bible to,'Sin no more'"
    There is the matter of the lame man that was at the pool of Bethesda when The Lord healed him and then...
    Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold thou art made whole; Sin no more lest a worse thing come unto thee. Jn. 5:14.
    Then there is Matthew 12: 43-45. This concerns The Lord's discourse on when a devil is driven out and returns to find the person no different then before.
    Do I dare say we no longer sin? That, within itself is a sin: a lie! But, I am sure you would agree, there are people you don't care what God says about this, (whatever sin it is)I am going to do it anyway. I can only speak for myself, but I feel absolutely miserable when I do something I shouldn't have until I come to Him confessing. I don't say that to boast, I just don't know how else to make my point.
    Scott:
    You make a good point. Of course, Jesus loves sinners and many, regrettably, are driven away. I would never support the tactics of, let's say, Fred Phelps, I believe his name is. Rhetoric like: "GOD HATES FAGS!", and the like. Jesus would never approve of that. They need to know the love of God. They also need to know, gently, but firmly, that God absolutely cannot tolerate
    the willful, "I don't care what God says", sin in their lives and it makes no difference who they are. We cannot be, "Lovers of things that give them pleasure, more that lovers of God." See my responce to Tim below.
    Tim:
    Biblical balance, yes, that is quite true and I hope that all of this clarifies my position here.
     
  17. Helen

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    Watchman, good points. I won't argue with you on those! You are right about the 'sin no more' but maybe we need to simply state very clearly that the desire to sin is inescapable before salvation and the desire to avoid sin just as inescapable afterwards. Since desire, however, is not the same as accomplishment, we all still sin!

    Thank you for reminding me of those other passages.
     
  18. Pastor Larry

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    Obviously ... Most here do not disagree with that. But on youth ministry and many other of your pet topics, you pick the wrong thing to rebuke on. It is the wrong thing because you are inserting your own personal preferences as mandates when the Bible does not give such mandates. Quoting Scripture is good, but when it doesn't address the issue it is useless. Most here agree that there are definite things to take a stand on. But even then, let your speech be seasoned with salt. Don't shoot the people on your side.
     
  19. Xingyi Warrior

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    I'm not exactly sure where your coming from with this post but I agree with you in some respects. I also believe that, as another poster pointed out, that some fundamentalists are doing more harm than good. There are some things that God strongly warnes us to avoid - the appearence of sin. It also says in the bible that there are some things that may, because of a persons worldview, may be a sin to them but not necessarily to others. Extreme fundamentalists have a very narrow view of their salvation experience and walk of faith. So do monks who have relegated themselves to serving the Lord in a very stoic manner. When fundamentalists go off course is when the begin to imply that their narrow definition of the Christian experience is a blanket doctrine to be adhered to by everyone. I've known fudies in my lifetime that were preaching that women were going to go to hell for wearing shorts!?
     
  20. Mark Osgatharp

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    Except those dirty, low down, no good, Pharisaical, Bible thumpin hyper-fundamentalists.

    [QUOTEI believe that God has called us to worship Him in spirit and truth - and that this worship can take many different forms.[/QUOTE]

    If worship can take many forms then truth can take many forms, for the Lord said that those who worship God must worship in spirit (which rules out flesh worship by the way) and truth.


    An "infidel" is someone who does not believe. When a man says, "I do not believe Jesus was born of a virgin. I do not believe the tomb was empty. I do not believe in hell. I do not believe the Scriptures are true. I do not believe in blood atonement, etc. etc." he proves himself to be an infidel, not a Christian.

    Though infidels may have creeped into some of the Lord's churches they have no real part in them. They do not hold the head, much less are they part of the body. They are only snakes that have slithered in. Devils that have come to kill, steal, and destroy.

    And men like you are facilitating them by pretending that they are good Christian brothers who just happen to have some different opinions.

    Mark Osgatharp
     

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