Featured NT WRIGHT on Heaven

I told you... defending Wright is a never ending struggle here and not worth it. It is their loss if they choose not to read or glean from the man. I however will go on reading his stuff and be enriched all the more b/c of it.

 

Even though his views on the scriptures and on the method of salvation varies from what Jesus and His Apostles held them to being?

 

The Lord jesus and the Apostles saw his death in the context of Isaiah and all of the other prophets, as Him dieing in a substutionary mode for the salvation of sinners...

No one can deny that was the primaty focus of Him and John/peter/paul, and if the Church fathers held different views, they erred!

 

He is a baptismal regenerationalist or a sacramentalist who has simply repackaged justification by works so that appears to be grace. He is a heretic teaching what Paul spelled out to be "another gospel" of justification by works. He has to repackage and redefine "justification by works" and "the works of the law" to make it mean something other than attempting to obtain eternal life or entrance into life by works defined as good by the law.

 

The words "penal substitutionary atonement" have to do with the elect. Regardless how you view election, whether they were simply foreknown as in prescience or predetermined, "penal substitutionary atonement" has to do with securing the salvation of all that the Father gave him (Jn. 6:38-39; 17:2; Eph. 1:4-13; etc.) and reversing the effects of sin in them.

The atoning work of Christ exceeded merely the salvation of the elect. It reconciled "the world" or His creation (Rom. 8:22-25) and thus overthrew the works of Satan not only in regard to the elect but in regard to the natural order of creation.

NT Wright is a heretic, as he is a baptismal regenerationists, sacramentalist and thus at a very minimum preaches "another gospel" which scriptures delcare is "accursed." His view of justification is nothing more than a very sophisticated educated garble that redresses "justification by works" in the clothing of scriptural terms neutered of their Biblical meaning.

 

So you believe those who actually believed in "another gospel" are saved persons regardless of what the scripture clearly states? I agree there may be many saved sacramentarians but it is in spite of what they teach or have been later led to believe after salvation. There is no salvation in any other gospel for anyone at anytime anywhere.

 

Again, let me make myself clear. There are saved people within almost all denoninations regardless of the gospel they preach, but they are saved IN SPITE OF the gospel they were taught. The scripture is very clear there is no salvation by any other gospel and sacramentarinism is another gospel.

The same is true among those who claim to be saved by works but it is IN SPITE OF what they have been taught to embrace.

 

I don't know how to say it clearer but I will try again. Sacramentarianism as well as all gospels of justification by works saves NOBODY! People who are saved among such groups were NEVER SAVED by embracing that gospel of works. IF they are saved or ever came to salvation it is IN SPITE OF what they are teaching or being taught. In other words God can save them by simple faith in the gospel as revealed in his Word IN SPITE OF their educational training and theological explanations.

IF they are saved, when you ask them to tell you their salvation experience it will be just like yours - an experience where God revealed their sinfulness and simple faith in the simple gospel truths. IF they convey some other kind of salvation experience THEY ARE LOST.

 

I am an example of what Biblicists is saying.

I was saved reading the scripture and listening to (over 50 years ago) a gospel radio station out of Wheeling WV while in the military.

However I was a cradle Catholic and in my ignorance I returned to the Catholic Church where I was "retaught" by a priest that one can only be "saved" if at the time of death they are in the state of "sanctifying grace".

To be in the state of sanctifying grace (according to the RCC) one has to have no mortal sins on their account.
If there are mortal sin(s) absolution is required of a priest to bring one back into the state of sanctifying grace.

After about 2 years I left the Catholic Church never to return.

Not only because I knew in my heart my sins were ALL forgiven but several other dogma which they wanted me to endorse from my childhood catechism teachings (Baptismal regeneration, real presence, venial vs. mortal sin, etc, etc...).

"sanctifying grace" (so called) is the freely given permanent status of the children of God and we will "never perish".

God's salvation does not need to be personally maintained and such maintenance is in reality impossible and is in fact an insult to the work of Christ and "another gospel".

HankD

 

Praise the Lord! God's Word is not bound by theological circumstances and influences.

 

Indeed, the day I was saved I had exactly the realization you spoke of - my sins were forever and completely forgiven! (in spite of my earlier religious training).

Admittedly I was confused by the priests, but the Spirit of Christ always gave me scripture to both answer them and assure me I was His.

HankD

 

How about this? Your eternal salvation was achieved on the Cross at the exact moment that Jesus died. (Jesus death paid the price (propitiation) for those it was intended for)

Your regeneration occurred, you understood the work of Jehovah, you were converted to believer and began repentance while in a Baptist church. (One is dead in trespasses and sins, Eph 2:1) and is brought to life (regenerated) via Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,) .

 

Jon, we are all different. When salvation comes it appears to me that some confusion can be present especially when we are told by "authorities" that we have to maintain our salvation.

John 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.

Former Catholics draw a great deal of assurance from this passage that no Catholic priest can take away. When the clouds came I would think on this passage and the sunlight would break through.

So I would say that there is that first enlightenment from the Spirit having been born from above followed by a lifetime of realizations of the joy of His salvation.

1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:



HankD