Officials: 31 of 53 girls from sect ranch have been pregnant

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by carpro, Apr 28, 2008.

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  1. carpro

    carpro
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    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90B2K480&show_article=1

    Officials: 31 of 53 girls from sect ranch have been pregnant

    Apr 28 03:45 PM US/Eastern
    By MICHELLE ROBERTS
    Associated Press Writer



    SAN ANTONIO (AP) - Texas child welfare officials say more than half the teen girls swept into state custody from a polygamist sect's ranch have been pregnant.

    Child Protective Services spokesman Darrell Azar says 53 girls between the ages of 14 and 17 were living on the ranch in Eldorado. Of that group, 31 already have children or are pregnant.

    State officials took custody of all 463 children at the Yearning For Zion Ranch more than three weeks ago after a raid prompted by calls to a domestic violence hotline.

    Child welfare officials say there was a pattern of underage girls forced into "spiritual marriages" with much older men at the ranch.
     
  2. windcatcher

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    Although these facts are disturbing to me;

    Equally disturbing is that I still feel that their constitutional rights were violated. Intrusion based upon a bogus accusation from out of the state? Searches, separation, division of families before proof of crimes. Not a member of the compound has come forward to press charges against another or identify that they were abused? Their children have been separated from an orderly, peaceful, and healthy lifestyle to be integrated into group homes where other children are wards of the state, have used or been exposed to drug use, have been subject to physical, sexual, and emotional abuse..... and in such foster care, the abuse continues.

    Would we have this information if their rights had been upheld?

    The sheriff's department supposedly had an inside man living in the compound for 4 years! Where's the timeliness of charges and prosecution which earlier revelations should have revealed..... Or did the sheriff's department lie to the media which reported there was an insider when the story was first breaking?

    Also, I'm I the only one who has heard that the compound exists on a portion of land which is in the way of the International Highway being built from Mexico to Canada? A mere 'conincidence'.

    Surprising to me is the Mormon Church's own silence over the constitutionality of this invasion and kidnapping based on a false report. I can understand their embarassment, if they don't approve of bigamy, and a splinter group does.... but the morality of our own society doesn't stand approved as higher than the morality within that compound.

    The same reasoning which has allowed this to occur... could occur to any one of us and we don't see the significance! This very incident and similar ones in the past, reveals the acceptance we give: We're ignorant of the precedents being set and established. We divide easily on issues of morality (which any sane thinking person would realize the government has long ago lost its own compass).

    It is time that all of us 'self-righteous' people realize that we have never been able to dictate morality: The Bible is a book for believers but we live in a society which either ignores the book or refashions it, tearing pages here (saying 'homosexuality' isn't bad) adding to it there (the president and many of our own spiritual leaders praying to a god without a name.... saying we all worship the same.... when the Bible teaches us the name of Jesus, or Jehovah).

    What we are willing to watch others loose today, because we don't agree with their beliefs or morality.... we can loose tomorrow, because we didn't cry out to protect their rights of 'innocent until proven guilty'. Without a valid accuser, the government has no right to invade and search until they can find proof to validate their action. 4 years a man was on the inside. There was no menace to the surrounding community, state, or country by the existance of this compound or its people.
     
  3. donnA

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    Children being sexually abuse, emotionally abused and we should just leave them there?
    What it has to do with is it being against the law to sexually abuse children. They are teaching young boys how to be sexual predators as adults. The 'menace' was to the children, do you mean to say unless they are a 'menace' to socity we shouldn't do anything about child abuse?
    You just can't get it in your mind it is not ok to treat children this way.
    No one was kidnapped.
     
  4. donnA

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    Notice it says girls as young as 14 either pregnant or have had a baby?
    Sexual abuse, allowed by their parents.
    Every female child there will be abused sexually, this is the normal way they opperate.
     
  5. Joe

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    To support breaking the law is breaking one of the BB rules here.


    I read the young children call all of the women "mommy". How sad not knowing which Mommy in the harem belongs to you!
    Makes it very difficult for CPS when they lie.


    Any mother or father who would force their child into committing fornication with some sick old man, force them into being a slave, jail them like slaves on a compound, prevent them from getting help from the outside world, disallow them a proper education, and pervert the name of our Holy God, must be prosecuted. Never to see their children again.


    Like CPS said, it makes no difference whether the call was valid or not. That's a red herring.

    What they found is what matters.
     
    #5 Joe, Apr 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2008
  6. EdSutton

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    If you are referring to the so-called NAFTA Superhighway, also known as Future I-69, you have been sadly misinformed, if you have heard this. I-69 will not come within 300 miles of Eldorado, for I-69 runs through the eastern part of TX, from the TX/LA border SW of Shreveport in a SW direction via Houston to Laredo, at the Mexican Border. There are two additional "legs" of future I-69 in the SE part of TX. - one from Hidalgo and McAllen to George West (I-69C, along the US-281 Corridor) and one from Brownsville to Victoria (I-69E, along the US-77 Corridor). There is also a "leg" in Eastern TX that is proposed from northeast of Nagcodoches, near the Carthage, TX area to Texarkana, where the road would connect with I-30.

    Generally speaking, the main route of I-69 will follow and/or incorporate most of US-59 from Carthage to Laredo, except perhaps in the area of Houston, where it will likely follow the Grand Parkway "loop", and the "Eastern "leg" will likely cover the remaining portion of US-59 from Carthage to Texarkana. Also the routings of Future I-69 are also known as High Priority Corridors (HPC-18 & 20) under the ISTEA legislation of 1991.

    The only other 'national' or HPC proposed route that comes anywhere near Eldorado is HPC-38, (TEA-21, 1998) the Ports-to-Plains Corridor, that runs from Laredo (or potentially Brownsville) to Denver. This route does traverse via San Angelo, but is not scheduled to become an interstate (or have a new highway built, at least in this area), although some improvements, probably including adding two lanes alongside the exisiting two-lanes, where the route is not already four-laned is projected. There is simply not enough traffic projected now, or for the next 50 yr., to warrant this sort of road, along this route. Thus no new roadway or interstate, is currently being given any serious consideration here, the "pipe dreams" of many 'road-geeks' notwithstanding.

    I guess it is possible that TX may have some ideas beyond those I have mentioned, but I have not heard of such. TX is having a hard time coming up with the cash needed for her pressing road needs, as is, not to mention an unneeded project. It is highly unlikely that TX will suddenly find a windfall of an extra couple hundred billion dollars just laying around needing a place to be spent, IMO.

    This story of abuse, etc. is tragic enough and devastating enough, as it is. We don't need to add to it by repeating the unfounded speculations from someone who "never saw a conspiracy they didn't like".

    Roadfan Ed
     
    #6 EdSutton, Apr 28, 2008
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  7. windcatcher

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    Report me then!!!!! And tell a lie when you KNOW I have not advocated the breaking of a law.
    If that is how you read it!!!!
    The Bible is my law book!

    But if someone is a pagan, then I don't expect they would obey it..... and the Bible tells me if I am guilty of one small offense then I have offended the whole law, whether the world would judge me or not.

    But our government and our states and our local officials are under the Constitution of the United States. This is all you and I and anyone has to protect us from a tyrannical government. The Constitution says that government has no right in the private lives or in the religion or in the exercise of free speach. It says that just cause must be demonstrated before searches take place. The moment a witness is proved false, the investigation should cease. No amount of curiosity, or suspicion is a constitutionally justification for uncovering evidence.

    The laws that say bigamy is wrong can be changed tomorrow by governmetn. You may not agree..... but I don't agree that homosexuals can marry but laws are changing that allow this. All the laws we think these people have broken are man made laws. You can't get a court in the US to indict them on God's law. The courts only uphold man's law.... and man's law changes with the culture and the customs. The closest we have to absolute laws in our country is our Constitution. If this group is not protected by the supreme law of our land... then you and I are not protected either, and as hard as it is for you to realize it.... you're living in a fallen world of broken dreams.... one of which is our country... and bit by bit we allow it because we don't get our officials to first answer to us and the Supreme Law of our Land.

    The reason, the real reason.... we see ourselves as different from these people.... and lets face it.... we would probably be as agreeable in their anihlation (I do sense a murderous spirit behind some of the venomas attacks on this board against these people) as we are accepting that their rights were violated from the start and proceeded to discover and develop the proof that was alledged by the false witness.... Instead of one specific girl and one specific man being prosecuted, we have a group of people punished by the destruction of their homes and families, the tearing away of suckings from their mothers' breast, and in spite of their rights not to testify themselves, we resent that they refuse to answer to questions i.e. who is your mother.

    Since the witness was discovered to be false.... any action based upon that false witness is wrong...no matter how much crime was discovered. The government is wrong the moment they know a witness is wrong. The government doesn't have the right to breech privacy just because people chose to live different.

    Donna and Joe: By todays laws, I was abused because I got whipped at home with a belt, and switch and even had one teacher hit me several times with a ruler and saw others 'beaten' with a wooden paddle and that in front of the class in a public school. Secular standards change. The secular world recognizes no absolutes.

    A child who is raised in consistant and stable surroundings is a far more stable and healthier person than a child who is moved from home to home. Would you resent any older man and significantly younger woman getting together by their choice? Yes... from your viewpoint and from my view point we see a coercision which is immoral. But from the perspective of these people's beliefs, there is nothing wrong and they make their choice. There are some May December marriages which occur outside the Mormon religion.

    My late husband was a widower to a lady almost 40 years his senior. I knew her and they loved and cared for each other.. almost 20 years til her death. There is no law saying that was wrong, what they had between them.

    This is a Baptist Board and we have the necessity to judge Christian behavior by the Book. As for the rest, we owe it to them to judge them through the eyes of God's love. They owe us no request for our permission to live their lives and make their free choices. They haven't hurt anyone outside their community. Noone within their community has come forth with charges. Cult or no, they have their free will to make their own choices.
     
    #7 windcatcher, Apr 28, 2008
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  8. Joe

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    Statchatory Rape and incest is against the law. You are breaking a BB rule by promoting pedophillia and incest. Please stop
    Sadly, there is no other way to read your post.
    Good. Then please show me where fornication is acceptable to the Lord. Incest also.
    Show me where Rape is acceptable to the Lord
    Um, that makes no sense. Most people are not Christian, yet most people obey the law. In our state, one out of 100 people are in jail.

    This has nothing to do with this case, maybe you can start another thread if you wish to complain about the government.
    Please cite a reference for this. The consititution says that it has no rights into the private lives...um what's the rest of this sentence? And what does religion have to do with this case? I am not aware they were forbidden to practice religion. or freedom of speech? Please, cite us the constitution and while you are at it, please include the child abuse laws for the state of Texas. Let's see if 14 yr olds getting knocked up by relatives is legal.
    First of all, any call to CPS is to remain anonymous whether they leave their name or not. No one must be proven "false", and no one is to be "tracked down"after they make a report, true or false.
    Anytime someone calls CPS and makes a report, by law, all of these need to be investigated. CPS cannot act without a report being filed.
    Untrue. They cannot just change a law within 24 hours, not that easy.
    You may start a new thread regarding this issue,
    In this instance, they are following God's law. Incest and fornication is sin according to our Lord so this is a non-issue.
    I have no idea what you are saying but it sounds like you are subtly indicating these pedophiles rights have been violated. The children's rights superceed the pedophilles rights in this case because they are committing a crime. Get it?
    Again, it appears you are trying to indicate these Pedohilles rights have been violated because the children's rights to safety were upheld by the government. You call our posts "venemous attacks" because they uphold childrens rights and the law. Venemous attacks describes raping children, not our opinions posted on a message board. Man lady, you need help.
    You are promoting breaking the law here, quite dangerous.
    And promoting sexually violating children as acceptable.
    You need to get professional help. Pray and read your bible, I'll pray for you.
    The facts are these children are pregnant from their relatives, forced into fornication, and held captives as slaves. The bus had to stop many times because of the children's motion sickness, they have never been in a motorized vehicle outside of the compound. Not sure how they were cared for medically as many people need to be in a Dr's office to obtain necessary medical tests and ex rays. So there could be a possible neglect charge added to the stachatory rape charge. And possibly many more since they were held captive on that compound.
    You are not making sense
    This is a red herring.
    Children are pregnant, DNA tests are being done, and the fathers are being identified. Evidence abounds. A witness acts in the capacity of evidence, yet it is not needed as they have proof these men are pedophilles.
    I agree yet what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
    No, the laws you are speaking of do not retract back that far. I was also spanked in school (birthday spankings) but what happened in my Kindergarden class was not illegal back then, and what happened to me is still not illegal. My Kindergarden teacher was not, and never will be, prosecuted for that.
    Murder has been illegal for thousands of years, just one example. Yes there are unchangable absolutes.
    Yes, what is your point? If by stable you mean children who are not forced to be raped, raised by loving, law abiding parents who do not treat them as slaves then you are correct. But this doesn't apply here, now does it.
    Children are not able to consent to "getting together" with adults. They are children, and that is why they need parents until their brain matures into adulthood where they can make these types of decisions.
    Coercision? Children being forced into pretend marriages, held as captives on a compound, brainwashed, forced sexual relations with men against their will is coersion? YOU need help
    Their religion makes no difference regarding the law- nor their perspectives when they are raping children. Red herring.
    So...how exactly does this apply to the OP?
    Yes, again show me where Fornication is acceptable to God.
    Show me where producing Bastard children is acceptable to God.
    Show me where the Lord states we are to practice lawlessness.
    Show me where one man can be married to multiple women
    Show me where a harem is God's will
    Bible verse please? I have never heard that we judge someone thru the eyes of God's love. .
    So you admit now that they have hurt humans in their community but because of their location on earth, we are to allow them to abuse children as long as the stay within the walls of the Compound?
    The weaker children do not have the capacity to go against their parents in this manner, what is your point?
    Again, here you are promoting the sexual abuse of Children which is illegal. Adults do not have free will to make their own choices to sexually abuse children.

    The BB doesn't allow you to promote illegal activity. Please stop.
     
    #8 Joe, Apr 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2008
  9. donnA

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    I haven't said they should live by the bible, they aren't christians.
    But, we do have laws to protect children from sexual predators. And when someone sexually mistreats a child I expect them to have legal consequences. I expect the child to be protected, and the parents here refuse to protect them.

    For some reason you don't mind offering up children as sexual sacrifices, and you support those who do it. Isn't there a scripture about this, giving approval and support to those who do evil.
     
    #9 donnA, Apr 28, 2008
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  10. carpro

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    You don't seem very concerned about the rights of the victims. :tear:
     
  11. Squire Robertsson

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    I am going to close this thread. The facts speak for themselves. 31 out of 53 statutorily underage girls are either pregnant or have given birth.
    That the local authorities' probable cause turns out to be less than satisfactory is regretable.
     
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