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Oh Lord, Is It I?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 16, 2010.

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  1. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    I don't see anywhere in the account that 1) the disciples thought they possessed eternal life and 2) they feared they might lose it.

    Peter betrayed Jesus also and he was a true believer. So the account of betrayal has nothing to do with eternal life. It is a sin. The only sin that determines eternal life is the sin of "unbelief".
     
    #21 steaver, Feb 17, 2010
  2. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: That is a false accusation. To betray and to deny are two different ideas. Peter denied Christ but he never betrayed Him.
     
    #22 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 18, 2010
  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Yep.

    Assurance of salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit, Rom. 8:15. Many saints are troubled by doubts.
     
    #23 Aaron, Feb 18, 2010
  4. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Aaron, can a person, while in possession of an evil conscience, have a certain hope of their final standing before God?
     
    #24 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 18, 2010
  5. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    A "false accusation" carries with it an evil intent to blaspheme the word of God.

    I had no such intent when I erred in my post. You are correct, Judas' betrayal and Peter's denial are two different sins.
     
    #25 steaver, Feb 18, 2010
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    If you're asking, can one saved still be troubled by doubts, the answer is yes.

    It's because of a weak faith. Nothing more.
     
    #26 Aaron, Feb 19, 2010
  7. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight Well-Known Member
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    John 14:19 because I live, you will live also. If you trust that being in Heaven will be the only way to "Feel" secure....the devil was kicked out of there. You better have a better rock to stand on.
     
    #27 Jedi Knight, Feb 19, 2010
  8. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    Amen! :thumbsup:

    Some think that once you make it to heaven only then can you relax because FINALLY God will keep His promise of eternal security on your life.
     
    #28 steaver, Feb 19, 2010
  9. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: I disagree and by no means was I accusing you of an 'evil intent to blaspheme God' for goodness sake. That never even entered my mind concerning your remarks.
     
    #29 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 19, 2010
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim
    Aaron, can a person, while in possession of an evil conscience, have a certain hope of their final standing before God?

    HP: I asked about an evil conscience, not simply about doubts. Can one have a certain hope of ones final standing before God while in possession of a conscience bearing testimony of sin not repented and as such an offense towards God?
     
    #30 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 19, 2010
  11. steaver

    steaver Well-Known Member
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    After considering my remark I will concede that it does not necessitate an evil intent. I appologize for accusing you of having an evil intent by observing a false accusation.


    :wavey:
     
    #31 steaver, Feb 20, 2010
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Define "not repented."
     
    #32 Aaron, Feb 20, 2010
  13. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Sorry Aaron. It should have read “sin not repented of.”
     
    #33 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 20, 2010
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Define "not repented of."

    a) A particular sin or weakness not completely overcome in the life of a believer
    b) A pet sin one cherishes and nutures
    c) Other
     
    #34 Aaron, Feb 20, 2010
  15. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    To repent is to have a change of heart towards a particular intent and or subsequent action, seeing and judging it as God see and judges it, with full honest intentions to cease from such intents and actions. Anything less is not repentance. Repentance involves a turning from something, not merely an acknowledgement that it has happened or exists.
     
    #35 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 20, 2010
  16. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Your definition does not state that a particular sin must be irradicated from a believer's life, but that the believer see's it and desires ardently to be free from it.

    So, a sin unrepented of is a sin that is known to be sin, yet cherished and nurtured in the life of a believer.

    That person can have no real assurance.

    The believer's assurance is not in his capacity to live righteously, but in God's promise.
     
    #36 Aaron, Feb 20, 2010
  17. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: I am simply trying to understand your point but I am having trouble. First you say that such a one in an unrepentant state can have no assurance, then you say ones assurance is not based on ones capacity to live righteously. If one is not living righteously, the only option is for the one to be living in a state you say there can be no assurance. Do you see why I might understand you as believing a stark contradiction?
     
    #37 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 20, 2010
  18. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    That's right. I didn't say he isn't saved, but that unconfessed sin will is a source of doubts. In fact, it the sin is serious enough, he will have to be put out of the church.

    That's right. There's no contradiction

    It doesn't appear that you understand salvation.

    Abraham believed, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    Our righteousness is imputed, and one can only be as sure of his eternal state to the degree of which he has faith to believe God's promise.

    It appears you believe one must have a righteousness based on his own works. That is an evil conscience in it's truest sense.
     
    #38 Aaron, Feb 21, 2010
  19. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    HP: Here you show a 'believer' that can have, in your words not mine, "no assurance," then tell us that righteousness is imputed, all the while chiding me for not understranding salvation? You have done nothing to clear up your stark contradiction. What good is OSAS to the 'believer' if one has no assurance, as in the case you mention, that it means them?
     
    #39 Heavenly Pilgrim, Feb 21, 2010
  20. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    I think you're ignoring key words in my post, like "cherish" and "nurture."
     
    #40 Aaron, Feb 21, 2010
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