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Discussion in 'History Forum' started by LadyEagle, Nov 10, 2004.
This is posted here so as not to continually hijack the other thread.
Luther's words are a sad part of a great man's life.
Luther was a religious anti Semite while Hitler was a racial anti Semite. There is a major differance. Hitler saw the Jews as racially inferior. Luther did not have that concept but despised the Jews because of their religion not because of their race. Luther I believe attacked the Jews because of the Jewish Talmud which calls Mary a harlot and Jesus a illegitimate. While the Jewish Talmud is a blasphemous religious book much like the Muslim Koran, Luther was wrong to despise the Jews. Judaism like Islam is a False Religion but we are not to hate people because of their false theology. On this Luther badly hurt his testimony.
Hitler later used his words for his own evil racist remarks. Before we judge Luther too harshly, we should remember this is only one small part of his life and there probably would be no Baptist Board much less Baptists without Luther.
As I've already indicated on the Calvin thread, it's unfair to single out Luther for the sin of anti-semitism; most Christians of all shades were doing it in the 16th century. Doesn't make it right of course...
Yours in Christ
Oh, and wot Kiffin sed
Yours in Christ
Hitler was wrong.
Anti-Semitism is wrong.
Any kind of blind hatred is wrong.
Anyone, Jew or Gentile, without coming to Jesus in repentance and faith is lost.
Everyone is prejudiced. Ever roll your eyes when you see the overweight lady in the pink stretch pants at the grocery store? Ever mutter under your breath when a teen shows up at church with 14 piercings and purple mowhawk? Grimace when a very large family from Pakistan moves in next door? What about the kids who come in on your church bus? Do you hope they don't sit next to your child because they're not clean?
We're ALL prejudiced.
As Kiffin said, Luther wanted the Jews to convert; Hitler wanted them dead.
As to the original quote, Hitler said lots of things in public for propaganda effect; he was an efficient liar. OTOH, here's a quote from "Table Talk," supposedly compiled from stenographic transcriptions of Hitler's private conversations:
"When National Socialism has ruled long enough, it will no longer be possible to conceive of a form of life different from ours. In the long run, National Socialism and religion will no longer be able to exist together. No, it does not mean a war. The ideal solution would be to leave the religions to devour themselves, without persecutions. But in that case we must not replace the Church with something equivalent…The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity."
Hitler was a master of the political manipulation - saying one thing to please protestants and something else to please catholics and so on. He would have fit in quite well, if you ask me, in modern day American politics. I hate to be cynical but with politicians so seldom living up to their promises, I find it difficult to be otherwise. Quoting a person who says different things in different contexts is rather meaningless. Actions speak much louder than words as the old saying goes. It seems to me that Hitler's actions confirmed his true feelings as in line with the "Table Talk" quote more than the Martin Luther quote.
rsr - I'm a "Table Talk" and RC Sproul fan myself.
Wow, Strat, I think we actually agree for once!
You guys stop it now! If there were any politians in America today that even remotely resembled Hitler we would spot them a mile and a half off and take the proper steps to give em the boot ASAP!
Hitler had Satan on his side.
There was something diabolical about him.
He could convince anybody of his plans.
This was like mass hypnosis.
Yes, we would. THat is what happened to David Duke. It won't work. People are free to hold their opinions, but they will not come to political power with them.
My wife and I actually saw a woman in a store that had all purple clothes on. Her little living poodle dog was purple too.
Hitler had the German citizens "hood-winked"--
Only a few could see through the masquerade---a few religious and a few in the Weirmachet
When he unveiled his plan "Operaton Barbarossa"--the invastion of Russia---opening up the war on two fronts---the Weirmachet went along with it but members of the High Command left the meeting muttering under their breaths
David Duke I remember that guy. He was the grand pubah (or whatever they call it) in the kkk and I think if I remember right he was also the founder of the NAAWP. He was easy to spot as a racist.
There other racists that hide it very well, like those that support and increase funding for Planned Parenthood for instance.
When I was stationed in Louisiana, Duke won the republican primary for governor. The horrified GOP leaders promptly threw their support behind the marginally better Edwin Edwards, who welcomed them.
Billboards all over the state simply said:
"Vote for the Crook"
Some will say that Hitler might be correct. After all, the tide of antisemitism had been growing in Europe for a while, and, after WW2, England's solution to antisemitism was to create the present day State of Israel. This gave the Jews in Europe a place to go to, thus ridding many of the European countries of the "Jewish problem".
A sad bit of history, but unfortunately true.
You're very right. Prjudice is a sin, and we're all sinners. It's no shame to admit that we're sinners. What's wrong is when we give into that sin.
I thought it was Baron Von Rothschild's solution to form the state of Israel. Of course he did live in London at the time I believe.
Hitler killed his millions. Stalin and Mao killed their tens of millions. Why do the NAZI attrocities evoke such outrage while the Communist attrocities cause hardly a raised eyebrow?