Old Line Pentecostals

Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Seeker Of Truth, Jan 4, 2006.

  1. Seeker Of Truth

    Seeker Of Truth
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    When some Christians asked if Pentecostals are saved, many would answer that perhaps some old line Pentecostals are saved.

    I'm currently reading about the tongues movement. I see at least 5 different categories within this movement.

    1.Pentecostals
    2.Charismatics
    3.Word Of Faith
    4.Third Wave (Toronto Blessing & Vineyard Churches).
    5.Oneness Pentecostals (Apostolic,United Pentecostals Jesus Only)

    I can see salvation being preached in some churches in the old line or traditional Pentecostal. Charismatics don't focus much on the Bible or doctrines. Catholics and Protestants can be also charismatic.

    The word of faith movement preaches a health and wealth gospel which is a false gospel.

    The third wave movement is very deceiving because it claims that it's not Pentecostal or Charismatic. Frankly, it's just semantics.

    Third waivers claims to have the most bizarre miracles in my opinion. Peter S. Wagner and John Wimber are leaders of this group. Claiming that some dead people have been raised from the dead.
    But there is no documentation to back these claims up.

    The oneness pentecostals are a cult. They deny the trinity claiming that Jesus is the Father,Son,and Holy Spirit. You must be baptize to be saved, etc.

    So who or where are the old line Pentecostals today? I still would disagree with their baptism of the holy spirit and tongues as the evidence.

    Anyone knows any famous bible believing pentecsotal? Are they in the assemblies of God and church of God denominations?

    Benny Hinn is in the assemblies of God but I think he represents they extreme or bizarre side of the assemblies of God denomination?


    Any comments on this topic would be helpful.
     
  2. Archei

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    "pentocostals" are a pretty new group, and tounges haven't been documented at all from between about the third century (and 2nd and 3rd century tounges are questionable) and the 19th century.
    The only real well thought out pentecostal is one Dr. Wayne Grudem, who isn't really very well known but at least doesn't hold to the general ideas of nonsense babbling glossolalia (meaningless language gibberish tongues). But technically he's a member of the Vinyard movement.
     
  3. Psalm 100

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    The two oldest pentecostal denominations are the Church of God (Cleveland, TN), which grew out of 19th century Methodist and Baptist churches. People were leaving the churches because they felt that those churches were becoming too worldly.

    and, The Assemblies of God, which grew out of the Azusa Street revival in the early 20th century. This was started by Charles Parham, and (?) Seymour. If I remember correctly, Parham had been preaching through Texas when he was "baptized" in the Holy Spirit, and made his way to Los Angeles.

    The Oneness Pentacultals came out of a camp meeting of other pentecostals, through "revelation". It is mostly a legalistic and controlling cult.

    There are a few small, scattered groups of "pentecostals" but they are not large.
     
  4. Ben W

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    As I am aware, the Church of the Four Square Gospel is a Pentecostal Denomination.

    There is also the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist, but I am not sure how old they are.

    In the U.K the Elim Pentecostal Movement is popular.
     
  5. gopchad

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    The Church of the Nazarene is of old line Pentecostal roots, as well as the Church of God. Both of these would have additional roots in the "holiness" movement as well.
     
  6. TCassidy

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    The Church of the Nazarene have their deepest roots in the Holiness revivals preached by John Wesley, but the church itself, as an organization, was formed in 1907 when the Association of Pentecostal Churches of America joined with a small California sect using the name Church of the Nazarene. The next year they merged with the Holiness Church of Christ. The original name was Pentecostal Church of the Nazarene but the "Pentecostal" was dropped in 1919 when the word began to carry a new meaning.

    As to "The Church of God," wow. They are even more fragmented than Baptists!

    The Church of God, Huntsville, Alabama.
    The Church of God, Inc. The Original.
    The Church of God, Anderson, Indiana.
    The Church of God, Cleveland, Tennessee.
    The Church of God, Seventh Day.
    The Church of God and Saints in Christ.
    The Church of God by Faith, Inc.
    The Church of God in Christ.
    The Church of God in Christ International.
    The Church of God of Prophecy.

    Each one claiming to be the original. :D
     
  7. TCassidy

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    The Foursquare Gospel Church was founded during the "evangelistic" work of Aimee Semple McPherson, along with Angelus Temple and Life Bible College in 1923.

    I used to drive right past LIFE Bible College on my way to PCBBC in San Dimas when I taught there. Pretty interesting group. Nice bunch of kids on campus (we shared library privileges), but I can't say I was as fond of their doctrine. [​IMG]
     
  8. MatthewHenry

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    As an ex-pentecostal, I can answer this with some sort of authority.

    Benny Hinn and most all pentecostal's Believe the same things... they may word thier Statements of Faith's differently, but when you get past the "Smoke Screens" We will see that thier core beliefs are basically the same. They ALL believe that the "Signs and Wonders" are for today, and that the ENTIRE Bible is for today. Which is heresy among most Baptist's.

    Some of the more "out there" groups like the Word of Faith Camp... believe we can control angels, and can obtain a spiritual perfect state in this fleshly body. which, again, is rank heresy among most Baptists...

    I stop short of saying Pentecostals are going to hell, I would never say that. Most Fundamentalists think Pentecostals trust in tongues for thier salvation, this is a misconception. They usually don't. (except for some small exceptions....) They simply see "speaking in tongues" as a seperate experience, apart from Salvation. Some believe that one must come to a place of Total Santifacation, before one can be "filled" (Case in point... Church of God Mountain Assembly from Jelico, TN teaches this...) Most others, Believe God can fill anyone. at any place... We of course, know all this is nonsense. (I hope! :D )

    There are Cult like tendencies, For example, when I finally left the last pentecostal Church I was involved with for 3 years. (I was in pentecostalism for 21 years...) I recieved anonymous written Threats via US MAIL (blank white envelopes), Threatening E-mails, send via anonymous remailers.. was followed around when I was out in my car. It was quite the interesting experience. :eek: they haven't messed with me, since around auguest of 2004. so, I'm doing okay... But I try and keep a low profile and I don't venture near that Church. I don't need the trouble... :(

    Anyhow, there's what I know about it, there's more, but for space, I'll keep it short.

    MH
    :D
     
  9. Seeker Of Truth

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    Thanks for the comments, I forgot to mentioned that Calvary Chapel is a moderate charismatic church. I think you will hear the gospel and have saved people in Calvary Chapel.

    They do teach to pray in a heavenly language. But they don't represent the fringe segment of Pentecostalism.
     
  10. standingfirminChrist

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    I was ordained in a Pentecostal church. After many months the Spirit began convicting me of things that were happening in the movement.

    One particular problem was the teaching that 'if you don't speak in tongues, you don't have the infilling of the Holy Spirit'. My mother used to tell me this all the time. And for a period, I believed it.

    I began to talk like the Pentecostals, and thought God was really pleased to have such a saint as me. The Word of God is given to reprove, correct, and instruct, and for doctrine. I began to search deeper and the Spirit revealed to me that 'not all spake with tongues, not all had a gift of healing, etc.

    For any church to say you must speak in tongues or you are not filled with the Holy Spirit is contrary to God's Word. One receives the Holy Spirit when one hears the Word of God and believes according to Acts 10.

    The more I studied, the more I was convicted of being in that church. The Lord brought me out of that movement several years ago.
     
  11. Ben W

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    I think that this can come over a little confusing, The Church of God Seventh Day is not a Pentecostal Church. COG7 actually kicked Herbert Armstrong out of their church and he began the Worldwide Church of God and scince the late 1970's, various Church of God movements have broken away from that. These are all Sabbitarian, and are into British Israelism, unclean meats and various other doctrines. They have no relation with the Church of God Pentecostal type groups which evolved along a different thread.
     
  12. John of Japan

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    And the Church of God of Anderson, IN, doesn't speak in tongues!
     
  13. MatthewHenry

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    Calvary Chapel is another Pentecostal Cult that I would steer clear of. Chuck Smith's Doctrines are Rank Heresy as well. He's packaging is slick, but when you get right down to it, he's preaching the same message as the pentecostals.:

    See this Link:
    An Expose on Chuck Smith and Calvary Chapel

    MH
     
  14. Charles E.Smith

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    Would you list Jimmy Swaggart as an Old Line Pentecostal? He openly critizes the Word of Faith movement and Christian Rock music and also is an advocate for the KJV.
     
  15. Seeker Of Truth

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    Charles E. Smith has raised a good question.
    Is Jimmy Swaggert an old line Pentecostal?

    I also have notice that Swaggart is more conservative and sound that the Word of Faith movement and Third Waivers. I know some will bring his past with prostitutes but that doesn't make one unsaved. I agree that pastors and deacons should be held to a higher standard of conduct.

    I have heard Swaggert recently and all I can say is that you refers to the Word of God unlike many Charismatics. I still don't agree with speaking in tongues or the gift of healing.

    I think Jimmy Swaggert is closer to doctrinal truth than men like Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, TD Jakes or Creflo Dollar.
     
  16. Pipedude

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    It might be helpful to note that, back around the turn of the century, "pentecostal" and "holiness" were synonyms, referring to "a second, definite work of grace," usually called the baptism with the Holy Ghost. Some thought tongues were involved, others didn't.

    Some thought the second blessing brought entire sanctification, others thought it brought only power for service.

    Eventually the tongues groups gained a monopoly on the label "pentecostal." The Nazarenes still believe in second-blessing holiness (on paper, at least), but never believed in tongues.

    The Pentecostal Holiness Church used both words in their name because they believed in three works of grace, not just two: salvation, sanctification, filling, which correspond to pardon, purity, and power. Tongues accompanied the third work.

    The churches making up today's holiness movement are, by and large, dead. A common joke in their circles is "The holiness movement lacks only two things: holiness and movement."
     
  17. IveyLeaguer

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    I would separate Jimmy Swaggart from the Word of Faith movement. He is old-time Pentecostal and I believe a genuine, born-again Christian who loves God.

    He yielded, at least to some degree, to the temptation of success and dabbled on the fringes of the prosperity gospel in the late 1970's and early 1980's, and he paid a terrible price for it. But he backed away from it, and from what we know today as Word of Faith.

    And, from what I can tell, his theology is more sound today than it was 25 or 30 years ago, which is not usually the case these days. He may have fallen once, but I have more respect for him and the way he's held fast to God's Word on into his later years than some others who are more celebrated but have wilted to worldly and cultural pressures as they got older.
     
  18. Charles E.Smith

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    I agree. I would much rather watch Swaggart cry over lost sinners then see Joel Osteen preach his gospel of self confidence.
     
  19. IveyLeaguer

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    Yes, Osteen is a curious blend of Word-Faith, Schullerism, and pop-psychology, among other things - a counterfeit, false teacher.

    Jimmy Swaggart was never that, even at his low-point.
     
  20. Ben W

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    What is Jimmy Swaggart doing these days? Is he still preaching on TV?
     

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