Old Testament Value

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel
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    Many young Christians are of the opinion the Old Testament, while important, is not much more than history. While a vital part of the entire Bible, many have come to more or less simply discount it away.

    But wait a minute. We're told in 2nd Timothy 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

    On the day of Pentacost, what scripture was being provided to those who were hearing the Word of God? What scripture was being put forth by the Apostles? Well, of course, it was the Old Testament, along with their first hand testimonies of the teachings of Jesus.

    When Peter arose to address the crowd, he taught from the Old Testament. He referenced the Prophet Joel. When Philip was caught up to minister to the Ethiopian Eunuch, the testimony came from the book of Isiah.

    Accordingly, the Scripture comment referenced in 2nd Timothy 3:16 is to include the Old Testament. As the Bible did not come together until much later it's quite obviouse the only Scripture the Aposotles had at their disposal was the Old Testament.

    Young Christians need to realize the Old Testament is much, much more than just a history book. The Old Testament is just as vital to us today as it was to the Apostles back in their day.
     
  2. Amy.G

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    Absolutely. Maybe we as adults have failed in the proper teaching of the OT. The OT is so wonderful in that you can see Jesus all throughout it. The tabernacle, ark of the covenant, mercy seat, day of atonement, scapegoat, the snake on the pole...and on and on.....should be emphasized to young people so they can see God's plan from Genesis to Revelation.
    The OT is pushed aside many times to focus on the NT. We miss many blessings of scripture when we do that.
     
  3. JesusFan

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    We look to the OT for instruction in How God relates to Us, His principle/practices, but it was completed/fulfilled by/in the NT revelation of the Gospel of Christ, as it was a type/shadow of Him to come!

    So the OT teaches me the ways/principles of God, and the NT gives me the fullness/completion of the revelation of/from God!

    Doctrine of progressive revelation in Bible...

    ALL same inspiration, just that NOT is applicapable for us today!

    As the New testamentcompleted/fulfilled the Revelation of God to us for today!
     
    #3 JesusFan, Dec 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2011
  4. HAMel

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    ALL same inspiration, just that NOT is applicapable for us today!

    Were you intending to say, "...not ALL is applicable for us today"?

    If so, I agree. Things would really be in a mess if we were required to live by the Law.
     
  5. freeatlast

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    Amen! :thumbsup:
     
  6. freeatlast

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    That is where you are wrong. The OT has not been fulfilled. Only parts of what it says has been fulfilled. The rest is coming.
     
  7. glfredrick

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    When Paul wrote the letters to Timothy, he had no idea that he was writing Scripture. What he was talking about WAS the OT. It was only after the fact, when the church confirmed that the Holy Spirit had done a new work and they brought the writings of the Apostles and those serving under their leadership into the Canon of Scripture that they became the NT. It was not as if they all planned to expand the Bible with their writings. Far from it!

    That is why Peter's remarks on Paul's writings are so amazing. Peter indicated that Paul's work was Scripture!

    2 Peter 3:15-16 (ESV)
    And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, [16] as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
     
  8. JesusFan

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    Istn't there also a pasage where isaiah and Luke had verses quoted in same passage, showing Luke was just as inspired as the great Prophet?
     
  9. JesusFan

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    Jesus kept the entire Law of God perfectly, as a result, his death was received by God as being a perfect sacrifice, and his blood provided the means by which those whom are savedof God would be saved!

    What"rest is coming/"
     
  10. Amy.G

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    For one thing, the kingdom that was promised to Israel.
     
  11. HAMel

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    The OT has not been fulfilled.

    I implied that? Didn't intend to.
     
  12. Winman

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    Without knowledge of the OT, a person can err interpreting the NT. A perfect example of this is "the Potter" in Romans 9.

    Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

    Calvinists often quote these verses to teach that God unconditionally elects certain persons and passes by others, and that it is God's perfect right to do so. But that is not what Paul was teaching, Paul was referring to Jeremiah chapter 18.

    Jer 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
    2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
    3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
    4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.
    5 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying,
    6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
    7 At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it;
    8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
    9 And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it;
    10 If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

    11 Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

    Paul was referring to this passage in Jeremiah 18 in Romans 9. It is speaking of nations, which Paul was also speaking of in Romans 9, Jews versus Gentiles, and there is nothing unconditional about it. In vss. 6-7 God says if he has pronounced evil against a nation, if they repent of their sin, he will repent of the evil he had spoken toward them.

    In vss. 9-10 God says the opposite. If he had spoken good toward a nation, to build it up and bless it, if they turn from him and do evil, he will turn from the good wherewith he would have benefited them.

    So, in no way whatsoever was Paul teaching unconditional election in Romans 9. He was telling the Jews because they had sinned against God and rejected Jesus Christ, he was going to reject them. And those Gentiles who in time past were not blessed were going to receive blessing because they have trusted on Jesus.

    If you do not have a good knowledge of the OT, you cannot possibly understand the NT.
     
    #12 Winman, Dec 8, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2011
  13. freeatlast

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    Here is Just a few;
    Abrahamic Covenant
    Mosaic Covenant
    The Palestinian Covenant
    [FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Davidic Covenant
    [/FONT]
    There is much, much more not yet fulfilled in the OT and we need to understand it as well as the NT.
     
  14. beameup

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    Since the Holy Spirit emphasized three times that Paul is the Apostle for the Gentiles [Rom 11:13,1 Tim 2:7,2 Tim 1:11]
    and since it is most likely that new converts are Gentiles, then in obedience to the Holy Spirit
    it would be imperative for those new converts to study Paul's Epistles firstly above all else.
    Now, after they have "mastered" Paul's Epistles, then they might want to study the Gospels and Acts.
    The Bible (except for Paul's Epistles) was written "for us" but not "to us". There is PLENTY of "meat" in Paul's Epistles to "digest".
     
  15. convicted1

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    The OT pointed to the coming of the prophesied Messiah. The NT is proclaiming He already came, and is coming again.
     
  16. JesusFan

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    Old Covenant was God dealing with national isreal
    new Covenant is God dealing now with His Church

    The New Covenant is the One that we now go to God under, as we are now under Grace, not the Law!
     
  17. glfredrick

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    That was decided later by the Fathers of the church, but probably was not a factor when Luke did his writing.
     
  18. freeatlast

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    Well then why do you carry a bible with the OT in it?
     
  19. th1bill

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    I see there is disagreement with free´s statement of the truth, but he is correct. The disagreement stems from the wrong look at what the Bible is!

    Paul, Peter. James and all the rest taught from the Bible and the New Testament had not even been compiled at that time. Now, the New Testament is, quite, properly separated from from the Old because it is a very important work of God, through His followers! The, so named, New Testament is the, absolute, best Life Application Commentary on the Bible ever written, it is not the Bible!

    As for salvation and how it is attained, I do not even see how that has been dragged over and force inserted into this discussion, it has nothing to do with the subject, me thinks.

    Free, good work, sir!
     
  20. freeatlast

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    Thank you Bill. Without the OT we do not have a full picture of who God is and what He is like, not to mention all that is ahead and what is in the past. We need both the New and the Old to have a complete representation of the word of God. Without both the Old and New Testaments the man of God cannot completely achieve what God has for Him.

    2 Tim 3:16,17 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
     

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