On Reprobation and Reprobates....

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by pinoybaptist, Jul 25, 2002.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    Again, from the Sovereignty of God, by AW Pink.
    Subject: God's Sovereignty in Reprobation

     
  2. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    continuing the above...
     
  3. Ray Berrian

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    I have read A.W. Pink and some of what he says is true. I like his emphasis on the free gift and grace of God.

    A.W. Pink like Mr. Harold Camping only think their thoughts about God are correct. The rest are spiritual misfits. The truth is they, too, are only men and do not always get it right. I hope A.W. Pink includes himself in his statement where he says, {Some people} ‘ . . . accept nothing but that which can be measured in their petty scales of their limited capacities.' All theologians are finite beings even the two Calvinistic brethren noted above.

    Dr. Pink says, ‘God's sovereignty is profoundly mysterious.' What he is saying is he has a blind spot theologically speaking. We are made in the ‘image of God' and are rational and intelligent beings. Error will muddy the theological waters and make things appear mysterious and not rational as to what a loving God will do with human beings.

    Dr. Pink says, ‘ . . . each one will be judged by his works.' Sinners could not be judged by God as to their evil ‘works' if they did not have the freedom of choice, to do either good or evil. We have works and have a free will with which to do either good or evil. God would not judge someone and place them in perdition who did not have the capacity to understand His truth. Good works or evil works implies freedom of conscience and an unfettered will.

    Dr. Pink says, {There were many of ‘ . . . Adam's descendants to whom He did not give faith.'
    God only gives grace; He never gives faith! Grace is God's unmerited favor toward humankind; faith is a human beings response to the claims of His Gospel.

    Dr. Pink takes unwarranted strokes in painting a God who is vindictive for no apparent reason. This is another of Dr. Pink's mysteries that he will never decipher, if he is still living, because he cleaves to Augustinian Calvinism.

    Faith is man's response toward Almighty God. The author of Hebrews says in 4:2 that some people did not profit by the Gospel because that neglect or refused to mix it with their faith. If God autocratically gave faith to people, why is it said that these Jewish Christians came into Christianity by amalgamating {their}faith with the hearing of the Gospel? [Hebrews 4:2].
     
  4. pinoybaptist

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    I don't know, Ray.
    Maybe the Bible is full of contradictions from the mouth of an imperfect God ?
     
  5. KenH

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    Hebrews 12:2(NASB)
    2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    Also, the Bible sure does talk a lot about God granting things to people. Since He grants all of these items necessary for our relationship with Him, I see no reason why faith would not also be granted.

    Acts 5:31(NASB)
    31 He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

    Romans 15:5(NASB)
    5 Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus,

    Ephesians 3:16(NASB)
    16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

    2 Timothy 2:25(NASB)
    25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

    And concerning faith there is:

    Philippians 1:29(NASB)
    29 For to you it has been granted for Christ's sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,

    Well, well, well, faith is described as being granted by God. How about that. [​IMG]

    Ken
    A Happy Spurgeonite :D :D :D :D
    www.spurgeon.org

    [ July 25, 2002, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: Ken Hamilton ]
     
  6. tyndale1946

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    Ken said:
    ... Never doubted it for a second!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  7. Ray Berrian

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    Ken Hamilton,

    We also say that God is the 'Author and finisher of our faith.' Only the Holy Spirit can transform a sinner and give grace to the totally unworthy. Remember, the sinner is only saved when he says yes to Jesus; the person must invite Him in . . .

    Trusting in His grace.

    Ray Berrian
     
  8. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Tyndale1946,

    Try some translations--they will help you understand the Word of God. One of the verses indicating that faith is man's response to God is found in Hebrews 4:2.
     
  9. russell55

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    Of course faith is man's response to God. But why do you assume that if this is true, then faith cannot be a gift from God?
     
  10. tyndale1946

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    Thank you kindly Ray... Yes it is after he has it!... Without it he can't even understand God!... It is still a gift!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  11. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    continuing from yesterday:
     
  12. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    God gives faith, and Jesus taught it Himself. He said, "But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father" (John 6:64, 65). I do not know how anyone could misunderstand the plain teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ concerning this matter. Arminians reverse the order and teach God cannot come to man unless it is given unto Him by man. Man has to "invite" God to save him. Nothing could be further from the truth. What was the reason those to whom Jesus was referring did not believe? Was it because they simply chose not to believe according to their free will? That is certainly not what Jesus taught. "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father" (John 6:65). Furthermore, how can a dead man repsond to any call? The clear teaching of the Scriptures is the natural man is "dead in trespasses and sins" apart from the quickening power of the Holy Ghost of God (Eph. 2:1; Col. 2:13). Paul wrote in his epistle to the Philippians, "For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake..." (Phil. 1:29). Paul clearly taught God-given faith. Faith is not the gift of mankind to God. The Apostles told the Lord Jesus, "...Increase out faith." If faith were something mankind was required to muster up within themselves, why would the Apostles make such a plea?

    Hebrews 4:2 would contradict the classic Arminian interpretation of Romans 10:17 - "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God." If people get faith merely by hearing the word of God (i.e., the Gospel), how can the Gospel profit anyone because the Gospel must be "mixed with faith" in order to be fruitful. Where, then, does the faith come from to "mix" with the Gospel? Also, I would like to know your interpretation of Acts 18:27 - "And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace..." (Acts 18:27).

    [ July 27, 2002, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Primitive Baptist ]
     
  13. Ray Berrian

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    If you believe that 'the mixing of faith with the Gospel' comes from God, then you are again into a Divine Manipulator. We believe the Word teaches that faith is man's responsible action toward the Living God. Grace always remains the gift of God to those who believe.

    You not only run into the problem of a Divine Manipulator but also God who appears to be deceitful, in that He says you must mix faith with the hearing of the Gospel, but in fact, has controlled every aspect leading to the change that takes place in the life of the sinner.

    Divine manipulation and deception does not go with the Christian view of God.
     

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