Once Saved Always Saved

Hard to believe that a Bible believing Christian would quote "Endures to the end will be SAVED" and adds "this has NOTHING to do with being SAVED".

Such direct contradictions of God's Word are surprising

in Christ,

Bob

 

Amen! Eph 4:30 is a unescapeable statement for the truth of OSAS. It leaves no wiggle room as does every passage that opponants of OSAS like to bing up.

What I found when I began to studied this topic a few years ago is passages like these that were crystal clear and to the point that supported the OSAS view, but the passages used to refute a OSAS view were always a little grey or just simply a sentence extracted out of it's context.

I would not deny that there are some passages of scripture that at first glance would appear to contradict these crystal clear passages on OSAS, however that would then create a contradiction so one must dig a bit deeper to understand the more meatier passages. God appears to have made the OSAS supporting scriptures very simple and to the point, good thing since we are all like silly sheep to begin with. :tongue3:

God Bless! :wavey:

 

No one denies that salvation is from God and that the sealing work of the Holy Spirit remains as long as the person remains joined to Christ - saved unto the end.

What people here do not agree with is the bogus idea that "severed from Christ is SAVED ANYWAY" or that "fallen from grace is SAVED anyway".

No such texts in scripture!


Many here see the flaw in reading Matt 18 where Christ tells us about "forgiveness revoked" and then imagining "yes but saved anyway - forgiven or not".

in Christ,

Bob

 

//How is this latest turn in the discussion related to OSAS?//

If the Church must go through the Tribulation,
I think only 1% will reamain faithful
that means 99%+ will FAIL and GO TO HELL.

If the Church is taken out in the Rapture
before the Tribulation -- then OSAS can
be true - like the Bible says.

OSAS is a pretribulation rapture - Bible based -
Doctrine.

All the doctrines fit together, you know.

 

The Christian church has already gone through MANY CENTURIES of dark ages tribulation -- it still stands. The failing of OSAS is that Scripture does not make the OSAS argument "you can NOT be severed from Christ and CAN NOT fall from grace no matter what choices you make after being saved".

That is the problem with OSAS.

 

Ed,

This is your own logical, and you have no true proof from the Bible. I know most baptists are pretrib and hold osas doctrine.

2 Tim. 4:3-4 tells us, in the last days, they shall depart from the sound doctrine and truth, and pay attention to false doctrines, and walk after their own lust with itching ear. Itching ear is a giving positive and comfortable.

Pretribulationism growing so fast during 20th Century lead into 21st Century since 1878 Nigara Conference.

Pretribulationism doctrine, itself was not yet existed in the Early Church history.

Early Christians were suffering heavy persecutions and tribulations. Thousands and thousands of Christians were killed by Roman Catholoc- read 'Foxes of the Martyers'. Even, today, many Christians were persecuting by Muslims in the Middle East. Aren't we better than them?

Bible doesn't give us the promise that we escape from persecutions and tribulations. We must face them and suffering. Why? Because Christ suffered on the cross, so, therefore, we should follow Christ's example - 1 Peter 2:21. Also, Christ tells ys, we must deny our life and take up cross and follow Christ - Luke 9:23.

Luke 9:26 warns, "For whosever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels." If we won't surrender our own life and ways, and not come to follow Christ, and want to save our own life- earthly possession, and money, and family, and own life(flesh), not want to face persecutions. Even, if we deny Christ, then He will DENY us before his Father in the judgment day - 1 Tim. 2:12 and Matt. 10:33.

Bible never give us promise that we have redrose of hope.

Acts 14:22 tells us that, we MUST go through MUCH tribulations into the kingdom just like we through narrow road right now-Matt. 7:14.

Revelation 2:10-11 warn, "Fear none of those things which thou suffer: behold the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou FAITHFUL UNTO DEATH, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hate an ear, LET HIM HEAR what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

Rev. 2:10 tells us, anyone of us facing tribulation in a short period, while facing tribulation, we must endure persecution with suffering till death, do not give up on persecution till death, then shall receive the crown of life. Or, if we give up while suffer persecutions for example- "Okay, okay, I deny Christ!" Then they would stop persecute you and save your life(flesh), but we will NOT receive the crown of life!

Also, Rev. 2:11 warns us, we must take heed it, and if we fail to overcome them at end of our lifetime, then shall be SUFFER the second death - lake of fire!

This is a serious warning to us.

Clearly, Bible doesn't teaching us of pretrib and osas. BIble commands us to be endure and be faithful till death, then shall be victory over them to receive the crown of life and will not suffer in the lake of fire.

These passages in the Bible teaching us these are conditionals of salvation, and must go through much tribulation because of Christ's suffering. So, therefore, we should follow his example.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

One of the Bible books which support OSAS is Galatians, as long as the opponents believe that Fallen from Grace and Severance from Christ( Gal 5:4) means the Loss of Salvation.

Please note that Paul wrote to them.

Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ.( 1:3)

If they were fallen from Grace, and severed fromn Christ, how could Paul bless them and salute with such Grace and Peace from God and Lord Jesus?

Then he admonish them to walk in the Spirit. ( 5:16)

In the last sentence, he called them " Brethren, Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen" ( 6:18)

How could he change his statements from " Fallen from Grace and severed from Christ" to "Grace be with you" ?

The theology against OSAS can hardly explain this.

 

DeafpostTrib,

Bible doesn't teach Pretrib Rapture, but teaches OSAS as we read Jn 6:37, 10:27-30, 13:10, Romans 8:35, Galatians, 1 Cor 5:5, Heb 10:14, etc.

Pre-Trib rapture is a wrong theology which makes Believers idle and lazy, and lukewarm while the Anti-Christ works very hard to recover his wounds and to gear up for the next stage of persecution. Anti-Christ, the Harlot, the Beast, work very hard in order to integrate all the paganism and anti-Christ powers to seize and capture the True Christian Witnesses, and they will win over the True believers ( Re 11:10-13) but they will be raptured in the midst of the Tribulation. However, there will be remnants who give glory to God when they see the rapture ( Re 11:13)

We should not hijack this thread to eschatology, but simply speaking OSAS is one thing, and Pre-Trib is another.

Heb 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

The nature of our Salvation is Eternal, it is not disposable, it is not revocable. It is solid, eternal, irrevocable not only in the heaven but also on the earth before we reach the heaven.

 

Amen I will give you some good scripture that will make you happy. Mt 16:18 And I say unto thee, That thou art PETER, and UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH; and the GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT. Amen thank you Jesus.

 

Does God do a work half way? I don't think he does. If God does a work in a man he does it all the way. For Christ said I will never leave you nor forsake you I will be with you even untill the end of the world. I trust in Jesus very much and believe that he can keep me. John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, THAT IN ME YE MIGHT HAVE PEACE. In the WORLD ye shall have TRIBULATION: But be OF GOOD CHEER; I have OVERCOME THE WORLD. Ro 8:35 Who shall SEPARATE US from the love of CHRIST? shall TRIBULATION, or DISTRESS, or PERSECUTION, or FAMINE, or NAKEDNESS, or PERIL, or SWORD? Ro 8:36 AS it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more then CONQUERORS THROUGH HIM THAT LOVED US. Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither DEATH, nor LIFE, nor ANGLES, nor PRINCIPALITIES, nor POWERS, nor THINGS PRESENT, nor THINGS YO COME; Ro 8:39 NOR HEIGHT, nor DEPTH nor ANY OTHER CREATURE, shall be ABLE TO SEPARATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD, which is in CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD. Thank you Jesus . I Praise they man Lord.

 

You’re right Charles nothing can separate us from the love God has for us, BUT are we that are saved now stripped of our freewill and therefore can never turn our backs on God’s love?

I look at this as I do my marriage with my wife. If she were to cheat on me and leave me, I would still love her and desire a relationship with her, but in this case, she has turned her back on me. She has abandoned our relationship. I still love her for nothing can separate the love I have for her, but she of her own freewill has turned her back on my love.

At some point in time, she could desire to recommit her love to me and I like God to the prodigal son, will welcome her back.
-

 

When we stray, we are still not separated from God's love. Like a shepherd, He still loves us and He will bring us back to Him.

God's love for His own never ceases

 

Romans 8:35-39 have do nothing with the 'proof' of security salvation. This passage is talking about God's love toward us. Everything cannot separate God's love away from us. Also, nothing in this passage talk about sin. It is talking everything cannot separate God's love from us.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Rom 8:26 (KJV1611 Edition):
Likewise the spirit also helpeth our infirmities:
for we know not what wee should pray
for as wee ought: but the spirit it selfe
maketh intercession for vs with groanings,
which cannot bee vttered.

The whole of Romans 8 is about our
salvation. This verse says that when we
sin the Holy spirit makes intercession
for us -- even beyond what we can do
ourselves. The true child of God will
be corrected & do better & follow all
the commandments of Jesus, the Messiah.

Rom 8:28 (KJV1611 Edition):
And wee know that all things worke together
for good, to them that loue God,
to them who are the called according to his purpose.

This says even sin God can use in our lives to
our good. Of course, there are lots of scriptures
that remind us what we aught to do, or if we can't
do it, ask God in the Name of the Messiah: Jesus,
to help us.

Rom 8:30-31 (KJV1611 Edition):
Moreouer, whom he did predestinate,
them he also called: and whom he called,
them he also iustified: and whom he iustified,
them he also glorified.
31 What shall wee then say to these things?
If God be for vs, who can bee against vs?

Justification - the original transfer of our
sins to the back of the Messiah.
(Scantification, not mentioned here, is
the daily washing IN JESUS of our
daily sins.)
Glorification

Justificatioin, Scantification, and Glorification
are the three major parts of the Salvation
we have in Messiah Jesus.

The whole of Romans 8 is about our
OSAS eternal salvation.

Your statement is not internally consistant.
yes "everything cannot separate God's love from us".
But sin is part of 'everything'. So we in Messiah
cannot be seperated from God's love by sin = OSAS.

 

Amen, Brother StandingfirminChrist -- Preach it! :thumbs:

 

The only thing not mentioned is sin; I wonder why the apostle Paul left that out?

1Peter 3:12 For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

Is sin evil or not? I know, let's keep OSAS in tact and deny this passage of Scripture and pretend that the Bible says the face of the Lord is still on us although we still sin.

Let's also say that 1Peter 5:8 among the many other warning passages of Scripture speaking to Christians are all really speaking to the unsaved. And then we can tell our lies, and commit our sins with out the worries of that place called the lake of fire.

That is what Satan wants you to do. So far you're doing a pretty good job, and that isn't a good thing.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This passage of Scripture speaks of two groups of people; those who endure temptation and those who do not endure temptation. Those who endures temptation will receive what? THE CROWN OF LIFE. But what about those who do not endure temptation and sins; what will they get? DEATH.

Now we are faced with this question; is this written to the saved or the unsaved? Well, if it is writen to the unsaved, then by enduring temptation and not sinning they can earn their crowns of life. But the problem is we know from Scripture that salvation CANNOT be earned. So no, this can't be speaking of the unsaved.

Therefore, because it is speaking to the saved, then that means by not enduring temptation and after the sin is committed the end result is DEATH. Well, wait a minute OSAS! How can this be? How can the saved have the end result of not enduring temptation be death? That isn't what OSAS teaches.

That's because OSAS is not a Biblical truth. Yes, eternal security is a Biblical truth, but the WAY it is taught is NOT A Biblical truth. We are warned to be aware of the devil OUR adversary who is like a roaring lion looking for who he can DEVOUR. According to OSAS you cannot be devoured, but according to the Word of God we are told that it can happen so as the Scriptures warns we need to beware and put on the whole armor of God because temptation will rise, and we surely want to endure when it does.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

There is no conflict with OSAS and the scripture you cite. Everybody will die a natural death. A Christian's death can be hastened by disobedience and sin.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly [that there is] fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


John speaks of the sin unto death.
1 John 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

The flesh is weak whether Brother Ken or others wants to admit it.
Human perfection cannot be attained because we are in our fleshly bodies. As long as we reside in our fleshly bodies we will, as the scripture states, "sin and come short of the glory of God."

Let us strive to enter in, let us pray that we enter not into temptation, let us be thankful that God knowing our frame will not suffer you [us] to be tempted above that ye [we] are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye [we] may be able to bear [it].

 

Best argument – to date: (Against “no-perseverance” group of OSAS)

MMAN –

II Pet 2:20-22, "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1034131&postcount=9


SOME of the OSAS people claim to believe in eternal hell and to believe that this failure to persevere simply means that you are “OSAS Saved anyway but without persevering”.

Question:
HOW can it be WORSE? Worse to live with Christ forever than burn in hell forever??

---------------------------------------------------

Certainly at the point of salvation those who are lost are joined to Christ -- they are for the first time "in Him" they are "In Christ". But do they stay there? Do they choose to ABIDE in that condition or do they "lose their first love" and fall away?

John 15
1 ""I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 ""Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3 "" You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 "" Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 ""I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6 ""If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

 

Warning regarding the Need to remain faithful – OR it could be construed as God simply reminding himself that He needs to make us persevere in remaining faithful if He wants to save us.

Fallen and yet hoping to be “grafted BACK in again” into the vine of Christ!

Rom 11
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith[/b]. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness[/b]; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And [b]they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.




24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?


Warnging about Forgiveness revoked – OR God reminding himself that He needs to remember to make us “forgiving” if He wants us saved.


Matt 18
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1035489&postcount=59
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1035498&postcount=64
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1035503&postcount=67

Matt 18 <[b]Forgiveness Revoked!>
29 ""So his fellow slave fell to the ground and began to plead with him, saying, "Have patience with me and I will repay you.'
30 ""But he was unwilling and went and threw him in prison until he should pay back what was owed.
31 ""So when his fellow slaves saw what had happened, they were deeply grieved and came and reported to their lord all that had happened.
32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.
33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'
34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.
35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you[/b], if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''
[/quote]


TRUE statement about those who ARE in Christ and joined to Christ – being SEVERED from Christ – or God reminding Himself that this is something that can never happen?

Severed FROM Christ and Fallen from grace

Gal 5
4 [b]You have been severed from Christ[/b], you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?