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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by OldRegular, Sep 9, 2012.
What is the Scriptural basis for the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved?
First, can we agree on what "once saved, always saved" means? To me, and I believe in it, it means that God initiates salvation, God saves completely, and God keeps the saved person saved.
It DOESN'T mean that once you walk an aisle and get dunked and say a prayer that you can live any old way you choose and still make it to heaven because you got your "fire insurance."
Once saved, always saved is about the sovereignty of God - not the ability or inability of the individual to hang on to his or her salvation.
Here's just one scripture of many that support OSAS.
God didn't purchase us with Jesus' Blood and put a down payment on our inheritance with His Holy Spirit just to ask for a refund and get rid of us.
Most eloquently said Scarlett O and thanks for the passage from Ephesians.
The double negative found in the greek from John 10:28 is enough to seal it for me. They will never perish, no not ever!
That's a good thing.....
That is definitely a good thing because If I could ever lose my salvation then I'm sure I would have many times. In my weakness and my sin I have given my great and merciful God all the reasons he would ever need to cast me aside....MANY TIMES! Thank Him and praise His Holy Name for His grace and mercy. I look forward to the day when,in His presence, I will finally be rid of this vile old nature I am still stuck with here on this earth. The battle within rages daily in this world.
I won't comment on the subject of this thread because I have never believed in the doctrine and will never believe in it. It denies an essential aspect of God's character and ours.
Then you are of all men most miserable. To believe that one can be saved and then lose that salvation denies the very character of God!
Philippians 1:6, KJV
6. Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:
One of the best comments on the truth of the security of the believer is by Philip Edgecumb Hughes. Hughes, an Anglican clergyman, in his commentary on Revelation writes [page 57] very eloquently and convincingly , as follows:
It would be pretty bad for a believer to believe Jesus will not finish what He started. If you have come to the knowledge of the truth. A believer shouldn't have no doubt. We are weak yes, but Jesus isn't when we do have doubt we take our eyes off of our self and on Jesus who will not lose any He has been given.
A non-believer does not care about eternal security in Jesus Christ.
When we tell people that they have "eternal security" and they can never lose their salvation, our intention is to comfort them. But if they were never saved in the first place then we have given them "comfort," but now they have no reason to receive salvation because we've assured them that they are definitely going to heaven. If people are already saved, then the "comfort" of this doctrine allows them to live self-centered lives and to be complacent in their spiritual life, which at the very minimum makes them ineffective in the body of Christ. And if this doctrine is not accurate then we might be "comforting" many people right into hell. For these reasons, it seems to me that we're focusing on the wrong thing when we talk about "eternal security" or "conditional salvation." Instead, we should be encouraging people to get into a right relationship with God and to focus on living for the Lord instead of living for themselves.
I have been taught OSAS all my life..but some questions I have been asked over the years have been hard to reply too..like this one..
Can a person turn away from his faith in Jesus?
Since believing in Jesus is the requirement for having eternal life, if we reject our belief in Jesus then we no longer meet the requirement for eternal life. Having "proper faith" in Jesus is the one and only requirement for salvation, so if we reject our faith in Jesus are we still saved?
If a person is saved because of a free will choice then why not?
But Salvation is the work of God. He chooses those He will bring to Salvation from the foundation of the world. In the fulness of time the Incarnate God, Jesus Christ, pays the penalty for the sins of those so chosen. The Holy Spirit applies the cross work of Jesus Christ to each of the elect through the New Birth. They are a new Creation in Jesus Christ, they are in dwelt by the Holy Spirit. Those whom God has saved through the Blood of Jesus Christ He will keep.
I thought you believed that you started it. So you are a "calvinist" now?
I believe God starts life with the words of life, always has.
18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
Is used by some to deny the necessity of holiness in the life.I prefer ;
Chapter 17: Of The Perseverance of the Saints
1._____ Those whom God hath accepted in the beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, and given the precious faith of his elect unto, can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved, seeing the gifts and callings of God are without repentance, whence he still begets and nourisheth in them faith, repentance, love, joy, hope, and all the graces of the Spirit unto immortality; and though many storms and floods arise and beat against them, yet they shall never be able to take them off that foundation and rock which by faith they are fastened upon; notwithstanding, through unbelief and the temptations of Satan, the sensible sight of the light and love of God may for a time be clouded and obscured from them, yet he is still the same, and they shall be sure to be kept by the power of God unto salvation, where they shall enjoy their purchased possession, they being engraven upon the palm of his hands, and their names having been written in the book of life from all eternity.
( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )
2._____ This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father, upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ and union with him, the oath of God, the abiding of his Spirit, and the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace; from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.
( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )
3._____ And though they may, through the temptation of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins, and for a time continue therein, whereby they incur God's displeasure and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to have their graces and comforts impaired, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded, hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves, yet shall they renew their repentance and be preserved through faith in Christ Jesus to the end.
( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62 )
It does not deny the character of God but rather affirms an essential aspect of it -- freedom. And I can assure you that I am not miserable; I rejoice in knowing God who gave me the most priceless gift other than His love -- freedom.
Let me ask all of you for your opinion on something: Do you think it's possible for a person who does not believe the OSAS doctrine to be a Southern Baptist pastor?
There are God-called pastors and there are pastors. Both are standing in the pulpits of Southern Baptist churches.
There's a pastor in my extended family. Did God call him or did he call himself? Only God knows, for sure, of course. However, scripture tells us we'll know them by their fruit. His fruit is suspect.
I'm not sure what you are getting at. Are you implying that if a person does not believe in OSAS, that person is not God-called?
Let me amend or add to my earlier question of "Do you think it's possible for a person who does not believe the OSAS doctrine to be a Southern Baptist pastor?" If you say yes, does that mean you think a person could be a SBC pastor and preach against OSAS, or would that person have to keep his belief about this to himself?
And there are churches that are indeed His body and there are "churches".
What do you mean by 'saved', and, what is your 'Scriptual basis' for your definition?