One Type of Demon

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, May 18, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    In our adult SS class this morning we ran into another pitfall of proliferation of modern versions. We are studying angles, living creatures and demons.

    While graphic descriptions of Cherubs and Seraphs and Living Creatures are given, very little is known of demons. I tried to describe one pix of a demon as half man and half goat (like we envision Pan). Isaiah 13:21 is one verse to help understand it.
    Only the KJV uses a term that comes close to one that would even cause a second look - 'satyrs' from the Hebrew for he-goat that is used to describe the demons/gods worshiped by pagans of that day.
     
  2. mesly

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    Dr. Bob, I have been thinking about your comments and I am beginning to wonder if the issue you are finding with word usage isn't a small example of a larger problem? Let me explain.

    I used to use the KJV exclusively. While using the KJV (and KJVO resources like Ruckman's commentaries, etc.), I often noticed that entire doctrines were built upon specific words used in the KJV. Your example of the word "satyr" is a prime example. By using this verse to describe demons, we conjure up a picture in our minds of what we think a demon looks like. But, as you stated, the word "satyr" is not used in modern translations. While looking up the word translated "satyr", it is found that it is a goat. Which is more accurate? I don't know, but it does seem to me that the KJV translators took a liberty here with that word.

    Given all of this, and maybe this is a topic for another message thread, do we have different faiths/beliefs/doctrines/theology being taught between the KJV and the modern translations? I know that the KJVO crowd would say a definite yes. I am almost inclined to say yes as well, but not because I believe the KJV is perfect, but rather because I think we have attached meanings to the old english that aren't necessarily what the translators had in mind or the meanings have radically changed to the point of saying something completely different. I will attempt to come up with some other examples, but I thought I would throw this out to see if my "hypothesis" holds any merit or am I all wet? ;)

    [ May 20, 2003, 11:24 AM: Message edited by: mesly ]
     
  3. kman

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    Here is what John Gill says on this verse..I found it interesting..maybe you will too:

     
  4. mesly

    mesly
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    Kman,

    The quote from Gill is very interesting. So, do you think that the literal translation of the word (hairy-male-goat) is somewhat incorrect given the context of the text? Or is the word demon/satyr a more literal translation?
     
  5. kman

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    Well...not knowing Hebrew..nor Hebrew literature (ie. how the word was commonly used) I would defer to Gill..who studied that sort of thing intensely.

    If the meaning "hairy goats" is so obvious..why did the translators of the Septuagint (circa 300BC) use "demons"? What were they thinking?
    Do we know more about Hebrew and it's usage than they did?

    Perhaps they just mistranslated and that view has been propagated down through the ages...or maybe they knew something that isn't as clear to us today.

    -kman
     
  6. Forever settled in heaven

    Forever settled in heaven
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    did these "angles" have white complexion?

    "Angles?" he exclaimed. "Say rather they are angels!"

    http://users.aol.com/butrousch/augustine/angels.htm

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Dr. Bob

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    Oh I think you are right on target. I have heard HORRENDOUS exposition of the Word of God and way off-base doctrines based on someone's thoughts of the AV English translation that did not have a thing to do with what GOD said!

    "God will provide himself a lamb" trying to put Jesus into the passage

    "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God" trying to make election based on man's work not God's

    "And from thence we fetched a compass, and came to Rhegium:" trying to bring a magnetic experience into history 1000 years too early!
     

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