Only Believing Jews are God's People

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by OldRegular, Feb 26, 2009.

  1. OldRegular

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    I have said it before and I will say it again. The only Jews who are God's people are those who are saved through faith in Jesus Christ. Only those who are saved through faith in Jesus Christ are God's people, and that is a Biblical fact.
     
  2. Amy.G

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    True.................
     
  3. DHK

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    The opposite is not true. The Gentiles (you and I) who believe on the Lord Jesus are not Jews. There are believing Gentiles and non-believing Gentiles. There are believing Jews and non-believing Jews. Those who believe, whether Jew or Gentile, are one in Christ, and are called Christians or believers in Christ.
     
  4. DeafPosttrib

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    DHK,

    I would like to say something.

    Bible doesn't say, "So THEN all Israel shall be saved." Romans 11:26 in KJV says: "SO all Israel shall be saved". It speaking of HOW they shall be saved. It shows the result of Calvary.

    Jesus Christ is Israel. Romans chapter 11 gives the picture of tree, that Christ is a type of Tree, it is all about salvation, not speaking of suppose future restoration physical Jewish nation again.

    Jews were removed from tree, because of their unbelief. God grafted Gentiles into tree join with believing Jews, both became ONE. Tree is all about salvation which is in Christ.

    Christ is called Israel.

    In Matthew 2:15 says, "And was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 'Out of Egypt have I called my son."

    Where in the Old Testament did fulfilled Matt. 2:15? It finds in Hosea 11:1 says, "When ISRAEL was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt." Clearly, Hosea 11:1 called, Christ, "Israel". Christ have many names and types.

    Romans 11:25-27 was already fulfilled that Christ did came out of Sion(heaven), the Deliver(Christ) to forgived all people's sins by Calvary. God already graft Gentiles upon tree joined with believing Jews, both became ONE. So, both are now completing ('So Israel shall be saved') is in the process right now till the end of the age.

    Also, in Galatians 3:14-29 explaining very clear that we as Gentiles are part of Abraham's seed that we are in Christ's. Both Jews and Gentiles who put their faith in Christ, they are on the same seed, it is all about salvation.

    No longer divide between Jews and Gentiles. Both are reconciled became ONE together by calvary(Eph. 2:14-16).

    Church does not replace Israel. Church is now expanding, well as Israel is also expanding, because God grafted Gentiles into Israel joined with believing Jews, both became ONE.

    Nowhere in the N.T. that Jesus and Paul saying anything that Jews will possess their own literal physical earthly nation again in the future.

    Both Gentiles and Jews are share together in the Kingdom of God/heaven. It is all about SALVATION which is IN Jesus Christ.

    That what the gospel is all about.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  5. DeafPosttrib

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    Hey! I would like to add say something.

    I want to say something on Genesis chapter 12. Notice verse 2 says, "And I will make of thee a great nation, amd I will bless thee, and make thy name great, and thou shall be a blessing."

    Did God said to Abraham, "I will make of thee a great JEWISH nation"? No. He doesn't saying it. He was simple said to him, "a great nation". Nation means a country or land.

    Also, please look to Gen. 17:4, as God said to Abraham, "As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shall be 'A Father of MANY NATIONS."

    This verse that, God doesn't say to him, "You will be a Father of Jewish Nation."

    I would like to show you something about God was wrestled with Jacob. In Genesis 32:27-28. It says, "And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed."

    I realized that there are three important keys of verse 28: 1. power 2. men 3. prevailed.

    Prevailed means sucessful or victory.

    Not long time ago, I learned something new of passage that have refer with Gen. 32:27-28. I found in Matthew 16:18-19. Please look Matt. 16:18,19, as Christ said to Peter,

    "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock, I will my CHURCH]/B], and the gates of hell shall not PREVAIL against it. And I will give unto thee the KEYS of the kingdom of heave: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

    Matthew 16:18-19 telling us of three important keys:

    1. Church
    2. Prevail
    3. Keys

    Church means people. Prevail means overcome or success. Keys means power.

    Matt. 16:18-19 is not focus about Jewish earthly nation. It focus on world with the power of spreading the gospel.

    I realized that both Gen. 32:28 and Matt. 16:18,19 telling the same thing on three important keys:

    1. Men/People
    2. Prevail
    3. Power/Keys

    Gen. 32:28 was not focus on Jews only. Also, it apply to us as world. Well also, Matt. 16:18,19 was not focus on Jews only, it focus on world with the power of gospel spreading over.

    In the next post, I will discuss about country relates with Abraham of Genesis 12 and 17.

    To continue...

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
    #5 DeafPosttrib, Feb 27, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2009
  6. DeafPosttrib

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    bY the way, Abraham was not a Jew yet before God called him. He was just a human like us in God's sight.

    In Romans 3:9- "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved BOTH Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin."

    Romans 3:29 - "Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also."

    This verse tells us, Jews are not only limited belong to God. Such as supposed future 1000 years so called, "Millennial Kingdom" that Jews will have more special to posesses their own land-Israel nation again and reign it, more important than Gentiles.

    Rather, this verse tells us, both Gentiles and Jews are same and have the same special in the Lord's sight.

    Romans 10:12 - "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over ALL is rich unto ALL that call upon him."

    All Jews and Gentiles are sinners alike. All need Jesus Christ.

    Romans chapter 11 is not talking about Jews will finally possess their own earthly physical nation again in the future. Rather, this chapter talking about tree, that Gentiles are now grafted into the tree, joined with believeing Jews, both became ONE.

    Tree is all about SALVATION which is IN Jesus Christ. That's simple.

    Later I will make post on country with verses, which relate with Abraham.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  7. Alcott

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    Abraham was never a Jew. Judah was his great grandson, and there was no tribe of Judah until after Judah had descendants. And later, of course, the smallest tribe of Israel (Benjamin) became so closely associated with the largest (Judah), and the other tribes broke off, so Judah and Benjamin were the Jews.
     
  8. DeafPosttrib

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    Alcott,

    So? All we know that Abraham, himself was not a Jew when God called him. He was just a human like us. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, both are same in God's sight.

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  9. billwald

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    >Only Believing Jews are God's People

    This was the only orthodox opinion until Darby invented Dispensationalism in the 1850's
     
  10. Alcott

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    So? So? We know he wasn't a Jew before or after God called him.
     
  11. J.D.

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    How do you square that with this:

    "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." (Rom 2:28-29)
     
  12. DHK

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    You actually take that literally? If so which tribe do you belong to?
    Paul is using an illustration. There were Jews that did not believe in Jehovah, just as there are those who call themselves Christians and yet are unsaved. Paul is simply drawing an illustration.
    But if you claim to be a Jew, I would like to know your ancestry. What tribe are you from?
     
  13. J.D.

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    Yes, I take it literally. I am a Jew by faith in Christ. Don't you take it literally? This passage isn't about people calling themselves Jews - it's about identifying who IS a Jew.
     
  14. DHK

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    The Jews exist today. If you are a Jew, then tell me what is yours. Why do you avoid my question? I want to know?
     
  15. Amy.G

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    Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

    Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

    Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
     
  16. Martin Luther

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    You are assuming you are a gentile, gentile means heathen. You may very well be of one of the lost ten tribes. It is my belief that the northern kingdom settled Europe. The terms jew and gentile are religious terms not racial ones.
     
  17. Martin Luther

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    All men who followed the law called themselves jews, this term applied to non-Israelites as well as Israelites. I have yet to find anyone who can show me with their bible that jew and Israelite are somehow interchangeable. Jew is a religious term referring to those seeking to please God by obedience to the law, they should have all followed Christ. Gentile is simply a man who does not follow O.T. law for salvation, this could easily include Israelites.
     
  18. DHK

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    A gentile is anyone who is not a Jew or an Israelite. Look it up in a dictionary if you don't believe me. A gentile is a non-Jew.

    Paul delineated very carefully three groups of people in the NT:

    1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
     
  19. Martin Luther

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    This is so easy, as I have said, jew means one who follows the law, many men from different races became jews during this time. What Paul was saying here is it was not the outward obedience to the law that saved you, it was internal obedience. This is why 1,2,3 pray after me is nothing but a copy of the same thinking these law followers held. As long as they say the right words and try hard to mean it, you are saved forever. There is no requirement to be obedient. This is very dangerous as obedience is absolutely required.
     
  20. DHK

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    According to your definition Muslims are Jews. For they claim to follow the law.
    Your definitions are flawed.
     

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