Only The Saints Were Raised...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by TCGreek, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. The profundity of the death of Christ overshadows everything else that happened that first Easter, but I found this allusion of Matthew to be compelling.

    "And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. (Matthew 27:51)

    The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; (Matthew 27:52)

    and coming out of the tombs after His resurrection they entered the holy city and appeared to many." (Matthew 27:53)

    2. Only the bodies of saints were raised on that first Easter. I wonder why?
     
  2. Brother Bob

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    I wonder why you don't call it the First resurrection with Jesus being the firstfruits of them that slept that arose. If that was not a resurrection, I wonder what one is?
     
  3. TCGreek

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    1. I was say it was a resurrection too.

    2. I believe that they went back to their tombs, unless someone can demonstrate otherwise.

    3. Now, the First Resurrection is a different story.
     
  4. Brother Bob

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    They went into that Holy City and many were seen by many. Why on earth, would you say they had to die again and return to the tomb. What did they do, that they had to suffer 2 natural deaths? I say they went to Heaven. What did Jesus mean, when He said touch me not for I have not yet accended to the Father.
     
  5. TCGreek

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    1. I'm not at all definitive at this point. You might be right.

    2. But I need more scriptural evidence to show that they went to Heaven after that momentous occasion.

    3. However, I do not see this as a reference to the First Revelation, for many key features are missing (Rev.20:4-6).
     
  6. Brother Bob

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    You will agree that Jesus is the firstfruits, will you not?

    I will ask again, what did Jesus mean, when He said "touch me not, for I have not yet accended to the Father"?
     
  7. TCGreek

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    1. According to 1 Cor.15, Jesus is the firstfruit of those who sleep.

    2. Regarding your second question, that is something I have not studied, so I cannot offer an answer.
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    I think it was 8 days from the time the sisters were not allowed to touch Jesus, then after those 8 days, they were allowed. Something took place in those 8 days. I have my thoughts, but the scripture is silent on it.
     
  9. Amy.G

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    The NASB says it this way:
    Jhn 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.' "

    According to my Lexicon, the word touch in this verse means to touch in a manner of manipulating, not just to touch the surface of something.

    It seems Mary was clinging to Jesus because she didn't want to leave Him, or didn't want Him to leave her.
     
  10. TCGreek

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    Yes, I have heard others on that silence as well. They say that during that time Jesus went and presented His blood sacrifice to the Father and then that is why they were able to touch him. But I have not personally studied it.
     
  11. Brother Bob

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    I don't know if you believe me or not, but that is what I believe but did not know others believed it. I also believe during that time He took the resurrected saints to Heaven.
     
  12. TCGreek

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    1. Yes, I believe you. Sometimes, I'm reading a book and have formulated an idea in my head only to find out that later on the writer makes the same point.

    2. "During that time He took the resurrected saints to Heaven" not unlikely, but as you say, the Bible is silent at that point.
     
  13. TCGreek

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    BBob,

    1. I picked up these quotes today. I was doing a bit of reading on John 20:17: "Rather than hold on selfishly to Jesus, Mary is to go to Jesus' 'brothers' (a new and affectionate title for the disciples) with the glad news that he will be returning to the Father" (R. Mounce, "John" in EBC, Revised, p.646-47).

    2. "The most natural interpretation is that Mary, in her delight at finding her Lord alive, cluthes him lest she should lose him again" ( FF Bruce, "John," p. 387).

    3. I don't know what you will make of these quotes.
     
  14. Ed Edwards

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    I must have written this in 1991??

    -------------------------------------------

    \o/ Glory to the Lord \o/

    \o/ Praise be to Jesus \o/

    Five Resurrections
    Found in the Holy Bible
    Compared and Contrasted

    The Lord God is a resurrecting God.

    Definitions:

    New Testament: God's contract on goy
    Old Testament: God's contract on Yisrael
    Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
    Saint: a person on God's list (AKA: Book of Life)
    Tribulation: AKA: The Time of Jacob's Trouble (Jeremiah 30:4-7);
    --Yisrael passing under the rod (Ezekiel 20:34-3;
    --Melting Pot (Ezekiel 22:19-22);
    --Time of Trouble (Daniel 12:1); etc.
    Resurrection: a person who was dead is alive
    goy - Yisraeli term for gentiles (probably slightly derogotory)
    Yisrael - Transliteration of the Hebrew term for "Israel" into English.

    How to get on God's list:

    Romans 10:9 (KJV): That if thou
    shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
    believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from
    the dead, thou shalt be saved.



    1. Resurrection of Jesus
    WHO: Jesus
    WHEN: 33AD
    WHERE: Jerusalem
    WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
    HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal; because of the
    resurrection of Jesus, all the other resurrections
    are possible
    References: Matthew 28:6, Mark 16:6, Luke 24:6-8


    2. Resurrection of some Old Testament Saints
    WHO: Some of those who died before Jesus believeing God, especially
    those who believed in God's Messiah
    WHEN: 33AD
    WHERE: mostly in Jerusalem
    WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
    HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal

    3. Resurrection of the New Testament Saints
    WHO: Church age (AKA: times of the Gentiles) Saints; balance
    of the Old Testament Saints
    WHEN: Some date after 3 Sept 2005;
    at the end of the Church Age; at the beginning of
    the Tribulation
    WHERE: Worldwide
    WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
    HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal;
    this resurrection is followed in but a
    moment by the translation of the living
    saints into a glorified heavenly body like
    that of Jesus
    References: 1 Corinthians 15:52, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

    4. Resurrection of the Tribulation Saints
    WHO: Those beheaded for faith in Jesus; those
    who reject the Mark of the Beast
    WHEN: at the end of the Tribulation; at the
    beginning of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus
    WHERE: worldwide
    WHY: The Lord God is a resurrecting God.
    HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
    WHAT: Raised to Life Eternal
    References: Revelation 20:4-6,

    5. Resurrection of the non-Saints
    WHO: All those throughout time who have rejected Jesus
    WHEN: At the close of the 1,000-year reign of Jesus;
    at the beginning of eternity
    WHERE: worldwide
    WHY: i don't know, God does
    HOW: i don't know, God does
    WHAT: Raised to eternal shame & damnation
    References: Revelation 20:12-15

    NOTE: The delineation of the five revealed
    resurrections above
    does not preclude other resurrections. The Lord God
    is a resurrecting God and His hand is not shortened
    by his revelation to us or
    by our understaning of His revelation to us.
    For example: Two Witnesses shall
    be resurrected in the middle of the Tribulation.

    There is a pastoral picture of the four resurrections
    for which the resurrection of Jesus was a precusor
    (numbered here as above):

    2. The First Fruits (Matthew 27:22-53)

    3. The Harvest (1 Corinthians 15:51-54, 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

    4. The Gleanings (Revelation 7:14, 20:4)

    5. The Tares (Matthew 13:28-30)

    Sometimes the Holy Bible calls resurrections 2-4, the resurrections
    of the just: The First Resurrection (because all the
    resurrections of the just preceede the resurrection
    of the unjust).

    The following scriptures seem to imply a simultaneous
    resurrection of the just and the wicked dead:
    Daniel 12:2, John 5:28-29 (all resurrected
    in the same hour), Acts 24:15. Revelation 20:4-6
    cleary notes that the just are raised one day
    (a 1,000 year long day) before the unjust.

    CAUTION: The numbering scheme 1 to 5 above was arbitrarliy
    assigned to enable the discussion. There is nothing
    sacred or Biblical about this numbering scheme.

    May Jesus our Savior and our Master be Praised!

    Note that ressurrections #3 and #4 are accompanied
    by a rapture of living saints.

    --compilation by ed, incurable Jesus Phreaque
     
  15. Brother Bob

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    Seems to fall in line with what I believe TC;
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    Ed; it is something I could live with and not far from what I believe.

    BBob,
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    For some reason I agree with you there, Bro. Bob.

    As for "touch me not" I sometimes think that between that incident and the next when He told Thomas to touch His side, the Lord did go back and forth to heaven. Yeah, I think that for the forty days the Lord was on earth, prior to that resurrection when they beheld His actual going up to heaven, He was going back and forth to heaven.

    No Scriptural proof as in black and white printed text and I'm not teaching that is doctrine, but that sure is a possibility.
     
  18. TCGreek

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    1. Should we not see the "touching" of both Mary and Thomas differently?

    2. One clings out of excitement, while the other is invited to touch to dismiss his doubt.
     
  19. rjprince

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    I know that there are other ways to understand this passage, but here it is... Eph 4:8 – "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men."

    I see in this passage the possibility of OT saints held captive in paradise and the resurrected saints at the time of Jesus’ resurrection being carried to Glory at the same time as His ascension. I am not dogmatic, but I personally feel that this passage speaks to that.

    Lazarus was carried to Abraham’s bosom; Jesus told the thief, "Today thou shalt be with me in paradise"; but in this age, with Jesus seated at the right hand of the Father, Paul says, "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

    Why did the OT saints have to wait in Paradise? The blood of bulls and goats could only provide a temporary covering for sins. Only the blood of Jesus could take them away once and for all!
     
  20. rjprince

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    Hi Ed! Glad to see you are still around!

    Think you are wrong on the "one day before" thing...

    Rev 20:4-5
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    A normal reading of the passage places their resurrection 1,000 years earlier than the resurrection of the wicked dead...
     
    #20 rjprince, Sep 4, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 4, 2007

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