Opposing Science if it agrees with Christians

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    In the recent debate Over intelligent Design - some have "supposed" that this is a case where a School Board was denied the right to have their schools offer a class in ID to students in Pennsylvania.

    This is in fact a bold landmark decision to deny the right of local school disctricts to inform their students that "ID EXISTS" as a theory WHILE still towing-the-line and teaching Evolutionism as if it was science fact.

    Instead of the school board "trying to teach ID" they were in fact "trying to teaching ONLY Evolutionism" - they simply wanted to open the students minds to the wider fact that the theory of ID exists!! (As in a 4 paragraph preface statement to the "Evolution indoctrination" that calls the students to be informed about the existence of other views)

    Further it DENIES the school districts the right to QUESTION evolutionism in any way - (even if it is just a 4 paragraph statement as the start of a class ON EVOLUTIONISM that tells the student that the theory still has some gaps in it.)

    The decision claims that it is unconstitutional to QUESTION evolutionism AND ALSO to admit to the existence of ID.

    The district school board was "trying" to get a 4 paragraph statement ADDED that simply said that "There is a book called Of Pandas and People"

    Admitting to the existence of the theory and existence of the book was viewed as "inane" by the activist judge in this case.

    The summary is in essence - that it is "unconstitutional" for Christians to express their view of nature AS IF that was real science instead of just stupid blind dark-ages superstition!

    --Specific actions hidden behind the pretext of protecting first amendment rights of ALL (excluding objective thinking students, parents, scientists, etc - i.e. the majority of U.S citizens) --

    The constitution is being "bent" to oppose discoveries in science that SUPPORT the Creator's own statements on Nature, life, species or the Bible history of mankind's existence.

    The constitution is being "bent" to oppose any discussion of scientific data that calls into question that humanist religion we know today as evolutionism.

    Is Christianity really such a disgusting instiution that Science ITSELF must be 'censored' to abolish discussion of all data that might question evolutionism and favor Christianity??

    Have we come so far from our own "Declaration of Independence"
    http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/decl.html

    that it is now "UNCONSTITIONAL" to speak of what we SEE IN nature - as having its origin in the Creator - who DID something that CAN BE SEEN as having been DONE by HIM - that SHOWS that He has an ounce of intelligence?

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

    So at one time it was "SELF EVIDENT" for ALL - no matter what faith and was essential to the wellbeing of our nation -- but NOW it is "NO LONGER ALLOWED to be self-evident" unless you are in church or possibly studing mythology???

    What is this sub-class this non-citizen that we call "Christian"? Such a low, despised creature that scientific data that may be seen as confirming the Creator's words must be CENSORED from the science class room!!

    How did we fall BELOW the level of basic freedoms and protection provided by our nation's constitution?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  2. BobRyan

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    Here is the 4 paragraph preface to the course on evolutionism and ONLY evolutionism that was "censored" by the activist judicial system in Pennsylvania --

     
  3. BobRyan

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    So although this statement STILL requires that ALL students swallow the propaganda of Darwinian evolutionism - it allows a tiny bit of light into the room for just a microsecond.

    It merely "informs" the student that IF they have some intellectual curiosity beyond the brainwashing being offerred in the course - they are free to go to the library and look up an alternative view - namely - ID.

    And of course - freedom of thought that might possibly expose the flaws in evolutionism or might allow the READING of scientific data IN FAVOR of Christianity - must be "censored" for everybody's good!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. mioque

    mioque
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  5. BobRyan

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    Hmmph - he appears to be a judge after all.
     
  6. billwald

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    ' "ID EXISTS" as a theory WHILE still towing-the-line and teaching Evolutionism as if it was science fact.'

    Bout time for you all to learn the meaning of the word, "theory."
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Theory just means "a framework for explaining the data we extract from nature" in science.

    For example evolutionism "at best" is described as a theory (and also doubles as religion for humanists).

    Intelligent Design is also a "theory" a framework for explaining the data.

    That is the "easy part" of the discussion.

    Recall that this was not a trial about "teaching" something other than evolutionism and the associated myths and dogmas needed by that system of faith. There was no attempt to "Teach" anything but EVOLUTIONISM.


    RATHER it was a trial about intellectual honesty vs brainwashing. It was about "Admitting to the EXISTENCE" of other theories specifically the EXISTENCE of ID theory and the EXISTENCE of a book that defines it that is available in the library!! It was about admitting to the EXISTENCE of debates among scientists and in science contexts between two theories!

    The opening arguments FROM the evolutionist witnesses ADMITTED to these debates and to the discussions among scientists AND to the book "in the library" they just did not want this SAME information to be made known to the students as a "one paragraph REFERENCE" to the fact that such information existed in the library.

    A more blatant, extreme, severe case of "pure censorship" could hardly be imagined!!


    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ December 29, 2005, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  8. BobRyan

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    Here "Again" is the exhaustive list of the data - the views - the facts that evolutionists determined as NEEDING to be hidden from the students.

    Witnesses for evolutionists ADMITTED that the evolutionary theory continues to be tested as do all theories. Continually compared against the data (until facts eventually outweigh bias in the case of evolutionism.)

    They also admit that they found tests for the ID theory.

    BOTH sides claimed to debunk/refute the other side's "theory" in the tests/data they provided. (No big surprise there. At some level - Proponents for opposing theories have been doing that for a long time in all branches of science).

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. BobRyan

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    The interesting thing is that when evolutionists pronounce victory over the subject by claiming that they "redefined science as evolutionism and everything else as religion" - they "pretend surprise" that this trick is not accepted by objective minds on the other side of the fence.

    But as I said before - that is not the question here. The point here is the level of censorship being applied to students and science itself on behalf of protectionist-evolutionists who claim that any science fact, data, theory that is not favorable to evolutionism must be censored! Even if it is merely to "Admit the existence" of a book in the Library on a competing theory.

    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ December 29, 2005, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  10. BobRyan

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  11. billwald

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    "Intelligent Design is also a "theory" a framework for explaining the data."

    God or space aliens or time travelers poofed everything.
     
  12. Kamoroso

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    Does anybody know where the Catholic Church stands on this issue? Since they beleive evolution is not contradictory to the scriptures, does that mean that they stand with the evolutionists on this one? Or are they just not persuing this one, since it doesn't really matter to them?

    Bye for now. Y. b. in C. Keith
     
  13. zealouswest

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    Augustine of Hipo, the Catholic Bishop who wrote "the Confessions" said this:

    Essentially I believe a Catholic may believe in evolution so long as that belief doesn't deny in any way God's hand in creation and his ultimate providence over all things. God could use evolution. There is no reason to suppose that Genesis 1 is literal 100%, especially when Genesis 2 contradicts an absolutely literal understanding of it.
     
  14. mioque

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    Science conflicts like these ought to be decided by scientists instead of by lawyers and schoolboards.
    I believe that evolution is a flawed theory, if I'm right it will collapse under it's own weight eventually.
    [​IMG]
     
  15. mioque

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    Keith
    "Does anybody know where the Catholic Church stands on this issue?"
    "
    Very much divided as usual.
    Behe and most of the legal team that was on the side of the Dover schoolboard are Roman Catholic.
    On the other hand Theistic Evolution is an equally accepted RC viewpoint.
     
  16. James Flagg

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    As soon as we Christians get ID into the schools, we're going to start teaching OB/GYN residents the "stork theory".

    After that we're going to start teaching the "green cheese theory" in planetary science courses.

    And finally, we'll start teaching atmospheric science majors the "Thor Theory".

    We don't need none of that fancy grade school learnin'.
     
  17. just-want-peace

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    Need any more to understand why "evolutionists" are so rabid against what God said?

    The ONLY science, to my knowledge, that rejects any form of opposition! But then again, evolution is not really science, is it?

    It's a belief system, just like creationism. The only difference is that the evos believe man rather than God.

    Oh! One more very important difference--creationists ADMIT that they believe as they do simply because God tell us how He did it; He spoke, and it was created. Evos refuse to admit that they just accept what they've been taught (with all it's assumptions) and that in truth it's just blind faith in their predecessors beliefs.

    Bottom line--you either believe God or man!
     
  18. BobRyan

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    The RCC is evolutionist all the way. They teach it as if it was really science.

    But I think the Pope is more of a "Christian" evolutionist like Behe rather than a rank atheist evolutionist like most of what you find on this board passing for Christian evolutionism.

    The Pope made a brief mention lately about ID being the right view.

    ID is the claim that while evolutionism in all of its myth and discredited speculation is "true" yet some things go far beyond merely "boiling water" in showing actual design.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. zealouswest

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    What part of evolution ISN'T science?

     
  20. BobRyan

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    This is the classic atheist/agnostic view that "if God has a half a brain then we must believe the moon was made out of green cheese".

    Not surprising when we read this as authored BY atheists - but when Christians do it too - you gotta wonder about their thinking.

    ID is NOT a claim about God is a claim that "the PAINTING SHOWS intelligence BEYOND the level of rocks falling in mud"

    Quite a stretch for what passes as "Christian evolutionism" here.

    But the point of this thread was NOT "do you have enough intelligence to admit that GOD SHOWS intelligence in what HE DOES just like the Bible says HE DOES" -- rather the point of the thread is about censorship against anything that "Admits" to intelligence in nature!!

    Rank censorship in this case where the facts that WERE confessed to in the trial COULD NOT be told to the students according to the judge!!

    Censorship of BOTH science AND students so blatant and obvious and egregious that one would expect ALL CITIZENS to object not just intelligent ones.

    But then -- maybe I was not giving enough credit to the effects of evolutionism on the faithful devotees to that religion.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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