Opting out of Social Securitie

Discussion in 'Missions / Witnessing / eVangelism' started by Ehud, Jun 27, 2007.

  1. Ehud

    Ehud
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    I guess the question is, should a missionary or even a pastor opt out of Social Securitie, even when it is not realy a conviction?:tear:
     
  2. StefanM

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    No. If it is not a matter of conviction, it is against the law to opt-out.

    EDIT: Sorry, I didn't notice you were from Australia. My answer applies to America only. I don't know anything about the Australian system.
     
    #2 StefanM, Jun 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2007
  3. Karen

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    But as a general thing, if one did as a matter of conscience, I hope that person has a lot of life insurance and disability insurance.
    Social Security is not just about reaching retirement age. It provides income for your family under certain conditions, in case you are disabled or die.
     
  4. Mexdeaf

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    I opted out around 20 years ago, only because the church I was ordained in told me to. I am already vested so I will receive something, but in retrospect I wish I had not opted out.

    I would not recommend it if it is not a PERSONAL conviction. If the church requires it you will have to make the decision as to what is more important to you.
     
  5. TomVols

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    American SS should not be opted out of just because you disagree with it, think it's a bad tax (which it is), etc. It is like being a CO for the draft.

    If you do opt out, fund an IRA or 403b like CRAZY, and have significant life insurance (I recommend term). Heck, even if you DON'T opt out, do this anyway. SS is a lousy "investment." But it's a tax we all have to pay.
     
  6. Pastor Larry

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    The church can't require you to. It must be a personal conviction against receiving money based on the salary earned as a minister. There are very specific qualifications.
     
  7. Bible Believing Bill

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    Actually we should all fund an IRA, 401K. 403B or whatever we can can like CRAZY. We don't know if SS will be there when we need it. The SS taxes we are paying today are providing benefits for people drawing SS today they are not a retirement or disability savings account for us in the future.

    Without additional savings, pensions , disability, or life insurance it will be very difficult to live on SS alone. My wife's SSDI check would barely pay the mortgage, and she might be able to pay the electric or gas bill but probably not both. It's a good thing I am still working or we would be living in the car if we had to depend on SS for all of our income.


    Bill
     
  8. Rufus_1611

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  9. Karen

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    You are very right, Bible Believing Bill.
    But it is also true that disability or survivor benefits need to be thought of and what would replace them if something happened NOW, not just in the distant future.

    For example, I know of a Baptist minister who died very suddenly and unexpectedly at a young age, leaving several young children. SS pays benefits to a widow in such circumstances raising children under eighteen or nineteen. And it can be enough to make a very significant difference.

    If a pastor's family can barely make it now financially, that pastor needs to take prudent steps, to the best of his ability, to plan for what would happen financially if he was not there. Or for that matter, whatever financial shape he is in now.
     
  10. rbell

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    Prison ain't.

    The only religious exemption for Social inSecurity (See, rufus, I agree w/you that it's a Ponzi scheme) is indeed if you have a religious objection to it. I have a ton of political and practical objections. But that's not the law, so I pay. Grrrrrrr.

    'Course, I'm funding my retirement like a wild man, because even my little brain knows what SS will pay me in 2042 or so. Nuthin. Or at least nuthin much.

    If FDR were alive today, I'd thank him for at least getting WW2 going, then I'd give him a huge wedgie for the stupid Ponzi scheme that may sink us all.
     
  11. SBCPreacher

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    Isn't it true that if you don't participate in SS you can't get medicare when you're 65 of more?
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    Yes, I beleive that is true. The tax is altogether ...
     
  13. Bible Believing Bill

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    If you notice I mention in my post that my wife draws SSDI (Social Security Disablity Insurance) benefits. My children also get a small check each month. Social Security does indeed make a differance in my families ability to pay the rent and put food on the table. The Department of Health and Human Services says the poverty level for a family of four is 20650 a year. My wife's and childrens benefit is about 2/3 of that amount, and barely above the poverty level for a family of 2. If we had to live on that then I don't know where we would be. You must not depend on Social Security as the only disability and retirement income you will have.

    Bill
     
  14. Ehud

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    Great wisdom.

    G'day, I have been reading all the post. What great wisdom for everyone. Thanks and keep giving us what you have learned over the years.

    I stayed in.:BangHead: I found out as a (self employed) missionary there are 19 countries that America has a totalization agreement with. Basically you do not have to pay Social security in both countries. So you can take the Social Security payments and invest in the country you are living in.

    ""Totalization agreements," have two main purposes. First, they eliminate dual Social Security taxation, the situation that occurs when a worker from one country works in another country and is required to pay Social Security taxes to both countries on the same earnings. Second, the agreements help fill gaps in benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the United States and another country."

    http://www.ssa.gov/international/agreements_overview.html for more info.

    Cheers Ehud
     
  15. Squire Robertsson

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    For years my pastor (under the appropriate US laws), did not pay into social security. Then, he turned 60 and saw what his (and his wife's) financials looked like ten years out. So, in the last few years he and our church have made up for his lost time.

    I know of an evangelist who is rapidly approaching semi-retirement. He's looking for a church to put him on staff so he can channel his social security payments through the church. (In the US, you need forty good quarters/10 years paying into SS to get the minimal payment.)
     

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