Order of salvation...

I prefer to speak of the work of the Spirit prior to repentance and faith in Christ.

 

That work of the Holy Spirit upon that unsaved sinner preceding individual Salvation doesn't imply regeneration though. But you might be.

Darren

 

The importance is that the sinner is brought to repentance and faith in Christ.

 

Agree. You don't want to state whether the Holy Spirit regenerates the sinner before they repent/believe or after?

Darren

 

Are you a Calvinist of that bent?

 

I best describe myself (guessing) I think as a 4 point Arminian (even though systems aren't really my thing). Anyway I'm just asking, you don't have to answer, no big deal.

:thumbs:

Darren

 

Actually it is quite important if taken in context. Is this passage speaking of a 'believer' or a non-believer - Remember in context.

 

When one sincerely confesses his sin, asks for forgiveness and knows that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. Only the indwelling Holy Spirit can give us the knowledge that Jesus took away our sins.

 

I'm more concern with a person coming to repentance and faith in Christ for salvation, not the order of salvation. :thumbsup:

 

As all of us of every stripe should be. But since this is a debate forum, this is a good place to discuss it.

 

Exactly.
It is also important in evangelism.

Believing in free will can lead to compromise in how we present the gospel so we do not scare people off. Not all do this but some have.

 

Wouldn't there be a huge difference what "truth" meant?

 

Tom, discuss What?

 

What is important in evangelism is telling people that they're lost in their sins and only Jesus can saved them, because he lived their life, died their death, was buried, was raised, ascended, and is coming again to right the world's wrongs.

What does the order of salvation have to do with evangelism?

The gospel is what we need to share and live in evangelism, not polemics.

 

Can you explain this? How does the belief in free will scare people away from the gospel?

 

That is a curious statement. I would think that telling someone they may or may not be the elect (most likely not...there are "few" who are) and that alone depends on their eternity would be scare people!

 

Say what?? The closest I can think of what you may mean is those whom pull altar calls to manipulate people into praying sinners prayers to get the "result" that seems to "look like" a heart felt response but was merely the knee jerk reaction because they felt guilty and got scared by the picture of hell and the lake of fire, into responding. So the church accounces they had 10 saved yet most likely none were actually saved. My former pentacostal church used tactics like that to pressure people into decisions for Christ, even forcing people to pray sinners prayers whom didn't want to anyway, then they would inform them they were saved and needed to come to church and live for God..etc

Darren