ordination

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tentman, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. tentman

    tentman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    I announced my calling to preach about 5 years ago and truly enjoy it. The problem is the association that I am in will not ordain me because I have been divorced. This happened some 23 years ago and I was not a Christian then. I was married for 16 years and I have remarried and have been for 23 years. I enjoy doing work for the Lord and being able preach is so fullfilling.Does anyone have an answer as to how I can become a ordained preacher. I am a member of a General Baptist church.
     
  2. glazer1972

    glazer1972
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2010
    Messages:
    261
    Likes Received:
    0
    You will have to find a congregation that willing to allow it.
     
  3. Gregory Perry Sr.

    Gregory Perry Sr.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    0
    Been There...Done That

    Brother.....I am going to offer an OPINION....and if any of my more learned Baptist Board brethren can offer SCRIPTURE to refute it then I will stand corrected and admit it openly. IN MY OPINION...you don't need to be "ordained" by any man or group of men to PREACH God's Word. For the record..so I won't get "BLASTED" for saying that...I'm NOT saying that there is anything wrong with ordination committees or being ordained.....it is a valuable tool to be used to insure that novices are NOT placed into the pulpits of our churches. It is not a perfect system but it can be helpful. I have not been called to preach as far as I can discern IN THE SENSE that I am to "Pastor" a church....but I believe we are all "called to preach" in some way or manner. You can preach on the street (very Biblical IMO) or in a nursing home, or even from a pulpit in a church (if they'll let you). You can preach anywhere. I'm actually in the same boat you are in with divorce in my background....it got done too me....not once but twice...AFTER I was saved. That said (I don't even believe in divorce but that didn't stop my ex's) I know, from a Biblical standpoint, that I don't personally believe I could be a pastor or a deacon due to the qualifications for each clearly stated in scripture in 1 Timothy 3 and Titus 1. But preach?..or be an Evangelist?...Go ahead brother if that is what God has called you too....and I encourage you to do so at every opportunity and outlet that opens to you. God will bless you and the preaching of his Word and you don't need the approval of man to do it. God Bless You Brother....I do know the pain you feel. A call to preach is NOT necessarily a call to "Pastor". We have this somewhat mixed up in our day. If I'm wrong...show me clear scripture to the contrary.

    Bro.Greg :praying:
     
  4. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    Ordination is important and is something good ministers should be accountable to for their calling.

    Divorce is a difficult subject for many denoms. I just don't understand folks holding something against someone, especially from before they were saved. Makes no sense. I'd encourage you to connect with another denom and church. Get involved and see if they will begin the process with you.
     
  5. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agree with others. You'll have to find a church, where you can show by the fruits you bear, that you've been called to preach. A church who will ordain you even though you do have a divorce in your distance past.

    Just my opinion....... If God has called you to preach, He has forgiven you. He wouldn't have called you to shepherd a flock if your baptism hadn't indeed washed away your past.

    Brother Greg made some good points. Over the years I've heard some good sermons preached by unordained men. Some some by laymen who didn't feel led to pastor a church, yet felt strongly called to share the word of God. While it's important, just remember that a ceremony in front of a church doesn't make you a preacher. It's what's in your heart that does that.

    If it's God's will that you become an ordained minister, He will bring that about in His time. When He's ready, He will lead you to a church who will perform the ceremony.
     
  6. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    4,319
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree wholeheartedly with this.
     
  7. tinytim

    tinytim
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Find a denomination that is not into legalism!... Run from the one you are in! That's a bigger problem.
     
  8. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    It isn't a denominational issue it is a local church issue.

    You can work with your current pastor and leaders to discuss the issue and look at the Scriptures and see of you can come to terms on the issue or you can move on to another church.

    I had 2 ordination counsels. One was made up of members of the church that was wanting to ordain me. 1 lady voted no. Her decision was based on experience, not character or knowledge. Then I had a counsel made up of other SBC pastors in our area. Several of them I have known for years. 1 pastor voted no and it was because of the divorce issue. He apologized and told me how he wrestled with the issue in the past and again in my situation. We had the ordination service the next Sunday.

    That said, being ordained by men is not what matters. What matters is God ordaining us and calling us. If He does, we had best obey no matter what any man says, and we must do say faithfully.
     
  9. tentman

    tentman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ordianation

    I agree with a lot of the responses. I have studied this issue for many hours and it is a denomination issue. I know some churches that ordain divorced men as deacons and preachers and some who will not even let them preach or teach. I preach every chance I get, but most of the churches in our association will not let me because of the divorce. If I had been a Christian and then got a divorce I could see where this may be different but I wasn't a Christian and my ex cheated on me so what was I to do? I want to be able to preach and possibly lead a church, but at this time I cannot. I have considered looking for another church that looked differently at this issue but I have not been led there yet and I know if I am to leave then God will lead that way. My ideas and thoughts have to lineup with His.
     
  10. ktn4eg

    ktn4eg
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,517
    Likes Received:
    1
    What bothers me about this is the idea that (according to SOME anyway) being divorced when that person was lost is THE unpardonable sin for a person seeking ordination.

    OTOH, I've seen those very same ones who oppossed ordaining a person who'd been divircbefore He even trusted Jesus as his LORD give a free pass to another Elder on how well they have (or, should I say DON'T [!!]) have their children under subjection!

    Isn't THAT also a major ("major" in the sense that Paul takes two whole verses to focus on the REQUIREMENT for a man who wishes to be a "bishop" to have, "....his children in subjection with all gravity;...." [1 Tim. 3:4-5], whereas [at least in the KJV] Paul spends only 5 words [1 Tim. 3:2b] in dealing with the matter of divorce when it comes to listing the requirements for one "seeking" the office of a bishop/elder/pastor/whatever?

    Apparently not in some cases!!!

    I say that because, in quite a few instances over the 46+ yrs since I received Christ as Savior, I've been to several church services/meetings/fellowships/or whatever you want to call that particular corporate gathering when---usually after the meeting "officially" ends, while adult parent Bro. X and/or his wife ("Sis. X," I guess you'd call her) is "fellowshipping" w/whoever---their small children are running rampant throughout the auditorium--jumping over and/or hiding under the pews, etc., and generally speaking creating chaos by yelling/screaming, or whatever else they wish to do.

    All the while, I also happen to notice some elderly people (often times physically disabled!) almost literally having to take their lives in their hands to avoid being tripped or shoved by Elders Y's and Z's children.

    Now, I'm not necessarily blaming the kids for acting that way because, well, they're kids. Nor do I think we necessarily should "worship" the building in the same sense as people did the OT tabernacle/temple.

    OTOH, WHERE ARE THE PARENTS??!!??

    Oh, they're just chillin' out getting "caught up w/ 'the latest'" about whoever----hardly ever as much as even glancing at what their young children are tearing up.

    Before you write me off as some kind of cheerless grouch, I simply ask you: Just HOW does this action/attitude demonstrate, "One that ruleth well his own house, having HIS CHILDREN IN SUBJECTION WITH ALL GRAVITY;" (1 Tim. 3:3 [emp. mine])??!!??

    And yet, I've NEVER, EVER seen ANYTHING done with regard to Elder Y's or Z's open and, quite frankly IMHO, blatant disregard for what I consider to be an ABSOLUTE and DIRECT C-O-M-M-A-N-D of God the Father directed at any man seeking to (or holding) the sacred office of an elder.

    (For those of you who may think that I'm somehow way out in left field when I post about these things, please show me from God's Word where I'm completely wrong.) :thumbsup:
     
    #10 ktn4eg, Oct 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2012
  11. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    So would we tell the female who wanted to pastor to just find a denomination that will let her? Would we tell the homosexual who wants to pastor to just find another denomination?

    All are supposed to preach. Not all are supposed to pastor.

    There are certain Biblical requirements if I'm not mistaken for overssers.
     
  12. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    The reason I said it is not a denominational issue is because of the Baptist ideal of local autonomy.


    Zaac, this issue is different than homosexuality. The Bible speaks clearly to homosexuality as being sin. Any sinful lifestyle speaks to character and disqualifies the man...homosexual, or heterosexual matters not.

    An argument may be made for female pastors, however I believe the Bible speaks clearly against them.

    What is really at issue in the divorce and remarriage argument is whether or not we believe the blood of Christ is sufficient for the covering of all sin. Do we accept the repentance and restoration that God has accomplished in the life of the man trying to be obedient to the call to ministry? We see wonderful examples if this in Jonah, Peter, and Paul.
     
  13. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    But doesn't the word also speak very clearly about the qualifications of the overseer?

    God gave an order for good reason.

    Yes the blood of Christ is sufficient to cover all sin. But there is still consequences to that sin. And one of the consequences to divorce is that many may be excluded from being elders/overseers.

    Sure the ability may still be in someone to do the things of the office. But God set the standard high for a reason.


    Perhaps this is one of the reasons that marriage is to be taken so seriously by the Christian and you don't just step into it.

    You must be above reproach and if you've done something that prevents that, perhaps we should not let pride lead us to have to have a title, not saying that is the case here.

    On the flip side, we have a ministry at our church where pastors come from all over if they have had moral failings or just feel beat up on and need to get some things straight in their lives before moving back into ministry.

    I have often wondered if there were adulterous issues taking place, if those pastors were restored would they be free to go back into pastoring?

    Is it okay to cheat on your spouse, be reconciled to her and the church and somewhere down the line be placed back in the position of pastor, but be kept from being a pastor or deacon because you divorce and there was no reconciliation?
     
  14. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me throw in a couple of questions:

    Is a man disqualified from pastoring (or being a deacon) if he has never been divorced, but is married to a divorced woman?

    Does it change anything if the divorced woman's ex-husband dies?
     
  15. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes Scripture does speak the qualifications of an elder. We are looking for the overall character of the man. Each church, each ordaining body, will have its own way of doing things. I am only speaking to what I would do in light of what I see in Scripture.

    In the case of sin, any sin, there must be fruits in keeping with repentance. I have no issue restoring a repentant man. I am not saying this is a quick 6 month deal. It takes time for fruit to be produced. If God allows for restoration why should we deny it?
     
  16. Zaac

    Zaac
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    Messages:
    13,757
    Likes Received:
    220
    In SBC circles, the answer is usually yes

    Yes, if the spouse dies, the other person is released from the covenant and may remarry.
     
  17. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tentman said he was divorced due to wife's adultry and has been remarried for 23 years. He further said he was saved after the divorce and announced his calling to pastor 5 years ago.

    (Tentman, this question isn't for you, as I have no reason at this point to doubt your calling.)

    Would God call a repentent sinner to become a pastor if God did not want him to serve in this manner, regardless of what was in his past before he became a member of the body of Christ?
     
  18. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just my impression, but doesn't the local congregation ordain the minister, not the association? Or is the church unwilling to do it because of the association's view?
     
  19. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Tom, we've run into that before. Many churches apply the standard for the calling of a deacon to the wife as well, even though it's not specifically addressed that way in scripture.
     
  20. mont974x4

    mont974x4
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Messages:
    2,565
    Likes Received:
    1
    These cases should be taken individually. I believe in his case there is sufficient evidence to support ordaining him. I admit my bias. I am divorced. My first wife cheated on me, has professed to be a Buddhist, and last fall left her second husband for another man. I remarried 2 years after my divorce and will be celebrating 15 years with my bride in December. I was ordained by a SBC church.

    I know a man who was a youth pastor and worship leader. He had an affair and left his wife and 3 kids. Now he is married to the woman he had the affair with and has a kid with a 3rd woman. In the future he may repent and bear such fruit but it will be a long time before he should be trusted with leadership.





    I highlighted your question in order to respond to it directly. When hasn't God called a repented sinner to be a pastor?
     

Share This Page

Loading...